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Ethos of Soul Society

A hivi karibuni manga chapter finally revealed the impetus behind the Quincy Annihilation Plan, arguably the most anachronistic action that Soul Society has taken. The reasoning behind this was not that relations between the two societies simply broke down, it resulted from a perceived problem caused kwa Quincies annihilating Hollow souls completely. Essentially, the Quincies were destroyed in order to hold to a certain balance of souls between Soul Society and the material world.

There seems to be a lot left out of this analysis, but I'll get to that in a bit. What's most important from this explanation is that it's the first time we're told straight up that Soul Society may not be on the side of justice. When Kajoumaru, the man giving the explanation, is asked about which side was just in their actions, he stated that both sides were just. It was an effective way to explain it, and yet ineffective at the same time.

From the beginning of the series, we've been pushed to believe that the Soul Society always does what's best and acts ethically. Suddenly, we're not so sure. Their actions seem motivated kwa greater causes, to be sure, but theirs is a consequentionalist viewpoint (basically, the ends justify the means). From a deontological standpoint, they're not moral nor just, since they're utilizing other beings lives as a means to an end.

In fact, it seems that they defy deontological ethics throughout the series. Every time they kill an arrancar, they justify it kwa saying that the arrancar was a potential danger to society, using much the same logic. We're told, for most of the series anyway, not to care about Hollow at all because they're mindless, soulless killing machines. Then we're presented with arrancar, who defy everything we know about Hollow, and yet the moral swali about killing them only comes from Zommari Reneaux in an impassioned speech:
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"Shinigami slay us as if it were their birthright. They pass judgment on us as if led kwa providence. Under what grounds are wewe permitted to persecute us Hollows? Is it because we eat Humans? Yes, we eat Humans, but who gave wewe the right to protect them? wewe declare that we are evil and therefore kill us. wewe believe wewe offer justice, but this is nothing zaidi than hubris. THAT CONCEIT... THAT PROUD FACE! The lot of you... THE LOT OF YOU...!"
whiteflame55 posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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That doesn't get much in the way focus, but it's an important point, and taken together with what we just learned, the plight of the Quincies seems very similar to that of the arrancar. The arrancar are being annihilated for some perceived wrong with long term implications (the view that all Hollow will come to the human world and devour souls), but in this case, there wasn't a conversation, no effort to meet and talk with the Vasto Lordes in order to foster some measure of peace au understanding. Admittedly, that's fostered kwa mutual enmity, but the same was true of the Quincies and shinigami, who, we're told, engaged in several battles DURING the meetings aimed towards peace.
whiteflame55 posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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While Kubo is certainly starting to explore these moralistic issues, my reason for posting this is to start a conversation. Is Soul Society actually being ethical, in any sense? Are they being utilitarian kwa persecuting and killing other beings that disagree with their concept of spiritual balance? Even on a consequential level, are they merely ignoring the aspects of balance that Quincies and Hollows may exert as a result of their actions? I'm interested to hear opinions on this from the knowledge we have, as well as what people expect.
whiteflame55 posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
 whiteflame55 posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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anime ya Bleach Majibu

silverexorcist said:
To start, we need to realize that those who stand for what is right do not stand for what is ‘good’. If your friend was convicted of a crime he committed, the good thing to do would be to help them. The right thing to do, however, would be to turn them in so they can atone for their crimes. Very different in many cases.
Whether what the shinigami are doing when it comes to slaughtering hallows is ‘good’ is moot, but what they are doing is right. They slay them for the balance of the world. If they don’t protect the balance, then all reality and existence would collapse, as the theory goes.
But what if the hallows don’t eat humans? Well, it’s clearly their instinct to. Normal hallows eat people because that’s what they feel they should do. It’s part of their nature. It’s primal instinct form the siku they gain their masks.
But arrancar are hallows who have gained intelligence and reason. I agree strongly with Neliel on the thoughts about their existence. As they can think and ask the swali ‘why’, they no longer have the need to rely on their instinct to eat souls.
And should these hallows be killed regardless? Notice that Neliel, a hallow who does not eat souls, has not been killed. But would any other shinigami take her life? Probably, if they are bound to duty strongly enough. Should they? In the ideal of protecting their balance, yes. In the ideal of doing what is good, no. In truth, so far the killing of the Arrancar wasn’t really one of ethics. They were going to destroy Karakura town and invade Soul Society. The conflict was inevitable. Now in the latest arc, it’s not so obligated. Both shinigami and Arrancar operate kwa reason, so I have my doubts that they would kill one another without anything instigating a fight. Personally, I don’t see a point in killing the zaidi rational arrancar so long as they aren’t eating souls.

As for the Quincy, I feel Soul Society was the righteous side. The Quincies were destroying the very balance shinigami stand for and the long term effect appears to be catastrophic. I don’t understand the Quincies’ side in refusing to come to terms with Soul Society, though I concede the fact that we have not heard their side just yet. As it is now, I do not see how they too were just, rather than simply stubborn and prideful.
Exterminating them seems rash, but again, it was ‘right’, but not ‘good’. If the Quincies did not onyesha any intention of backing down, it’s no surprise that it would force Soul Society’s hand. It was definitely in the ideal of ‘justice’, from my point of view. But was far from good. ‘Justice that goes too far is evil’ –a quote of Ookubo Atsushi, spoken kwa Franken Stein, I believe. Doing something to stop the quincies, I get. Genocide, however, was a radical decision, and ironic at the same time, considering the topic of confliction the two sides were having.

I feel I should say; Zommari's speech has its merit, but is hypocritical.
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posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita 
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He says that shinigami have no right to protect humans au kill hallows. But kwa that logic, hallows such as himself do not have the right to kill humans and eat their souls, hence the argument from his side is invalid.
silverexorcist posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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If it comes down to "right" and "wrong" instead of "good" and "evil," we still run into the same problems of the ends justifying the means. Basically, you've taken the consequentionalist viewpoint, that an action is good based on the ends being justified (though, admittedly, I find the attitude that they present, one stating emphatically that shinigami are the sole force keeping the universe from falling apart, seems self-righteous and I find it a little suspect). That's a fine perspective, but I'm not so sure that even if the ends are all important, their actions can be viewed as reasonable au ethical. Shinigami as an organization seem to resort to methods of genocide far too often in order to accomplish their goals.
whiteflame55 posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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"Means and methods mean nothing in the eyes of justice." -Marta's father from Tales of Symphonia 2: Dawn of a New World. The idea is that even if the actions in between appear evil, so long as it has a just outcome, all will be well. No matter what wewe do, someone will oppose the decisons made and think the actions taken are wrong (especially in today's society). It's difficult to choose a path that will satisfy everyone and still work out in the end. So between looking good and accomplishing nothing, au looking bad and accomplishing everything, people often struggle. But the thing is, Soul Society is not a government democracy. It's a military fraction that rules over the Rukongi Districts with an iron fist. The fact that their actions always follow violence is without surprise, as their military might triumphs their negotiation abilities kwa far when it comes to convincing a sekunde au third party, it seems.
silverexorcist posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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wewe make a good point, though I would say that there is not such a dichotomy of chioces. It's not like the only choice that brings about change has to be the most brutal, though that's certainly common for military dictatorships (but they have a King, so monarchies? Kinda strange). Brutal choices are to be expected, to be sure, but whether their brutality is justified when other options were obviously ignored is a whole other issue. Going from meetings and small skirmishes with the Quincy to genocide is a pretty big leap, and it sounds like they justified it kwa saying the world was going to end if they didn't do something immediately.
whiteflame55 posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
blackpanther666 said:
I can't say much about anything involving the latest Arc. My opinion on the Shinigami, is that most of them seem to be pretty hypocritical. They always get worked up when a Shinigami life is lost, but never seem to care much when an Arrancar, au Hollow is killed. I think the basis of the Soul Society is a bit mixed up - their principles seem a bit off, most of the time. I like Shunsui and Jushiro, because they hold to their principles and won't 'kill', au engage in combat, unless they see a good reason to.
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posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita 
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As I alisema to exorcist (though it's not the main point of our conversation in particular) I find the attitude that they present, one stating emphatically that shinigami are the sole force keeping the universe from falling apart, seems self-righteous and I find it a little suspect. There's something that just seems wrong with the idea that only Soul Society controls the balance of souls in the world, and therefore all other organizations are tipping the balance. Despite never knowing how long the Quincies had been at it, we were told that their actions would soon cause the world to descend into chaos. I can't help but wonder why they chose that timing, and why the inayofuata logical step after diplomacy was genocide.
whiteflame55 posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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Heh, yeah, I agree with wewe on that part. I don't know about the Quincies, but I doubt that any of their actions would really have that much of an impact on the world. I think that they have every reason to hate the Shinigami - who wiped out most of their people, after all.
blackpanther666 posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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Meh, say whatever wewe like about it, dude. I have no plans to read the manga - Bleach is over and done with for me. Lol.
blackpanther666 posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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