Quaila After skimming through the recent wall-posts, as an self-professed agnostic. I have to defend Lexa here with an analogy, and strongly condemn the same. I strongly believe that most atheists and agnostics are perfectly fine with their lives, and whatever problems in life they may have is totally unrelated to their religious belief, just as I am certain that whatever religious belief one may have, one's life can still have ups and downs. Thusly, I firmly believe that most atheist and agnostics lead happy and adequate lives, which would give a fellow human being no cause to help. Therefore, considering the fact that prayers for atheists are used to help them, such action is completely redundant. Analogy, I have two perfectly working legs, without any breakages or defects, therefore I will refuse vehemently to accept orthopedic help regarding my legs and will probably scold and/or sue the doctor who attempts any procedures on me, in accordance with the hippocratic oath. Similarly, we atheists and agnostics refuse prayers because we don't see the neccess in praying/helping perfectly happy and content humans. I will now strongly condemn the wild insinuations of offense because I have done very very little in this group, and to be bundled into one single group with those who may offend is disgustingly repungant to me, further I will caution the people who hold this viewpoint. I apologise for any offence on my part, and wish that the good people here would do the same.

Ninja-Kitten Your sophisticated language makes my mind ache :P Are you saying you're offended by me or by the others or by being prayed for...? BTW I looooove your icon, so lovely <3

Quaila I'm offended by the insinuations that I - as a agnostic, by generalisation offended, even though I have done nothing.

Ninja-Kitten Yayyyy

thetacoman I actually have a theory. I think the Muslim "Allah" is the same as the Jewish "Jehova" and therefore, the same as the Christian "God", therefore, I would not be offended. But I see your point. If you want to pray for this person, please do so in silence.

Dearheart "Try to think about this reasonably. I'm assuming that you don't believe in Allah, the Muslim God. Imagine that you sat down to chat with a Muslim person, and he realised you believed in the Christian God. Suddenly he gets very quiet and says, "I'll pray to Allah for your soul." Personally, a scenario like that wouldn't bother me at all. (Might weird me out a bit, but that's all.) I know where I stand, I am [i]confident[/i] in where I stand, and I know nothing can change where I stand. So why should his prayers to Allah upset me or offend me? Why let it bother me at all? Him "praying for my soul" and trying to convert me to Islam would be like trying to bring down a mountain by throwing rocks at it. xD To an extent, I understand the point you're making (and I do think some Christians could be less obnoxious when they say stuff like that), but at the same time...if you're so confident that God [i]doesn't[/i] exist, why should people praying to Him on your behalf bother you so much? Or rather, why [i]let[/i] it bother you? Who cares what people think about you, as long as you know who you are? Believe me, I'm not asking these questions to sound clever or to try and challenge you or pick a fight or anything. I'm just genuinely curious here. I hope none of this sounds in-your-face, and I apologize if it does. PS: About this part: [i]You telling us that you'll pray for us is like me walking up to you and saying "I know you believe in God, but I'm going to go tell EVERYONE that God doesn't exist, on your behalf!" "No! God exists! You can't go around telling people he doesn't exist, on MY behalf!" "Hey, I don't believe in God, please don't go talking to the air about saving my soul, on my behalf. It's insulting." [/i] It's one thing to murmur a personal prayer to God, under your breath and by yourself. It's another to preach "on someone's behalf", like in the scenario above. In fact, Jesus taught AGAINST making a big show of prayer and announcing it to the world. Most prayer warriors [i]I[/i] know who pray for "non-believers" do so in private, among themselves, without telling it to people who'd be offended. Atheists everywhere have millions of Christians praying for them every day, whether they're aware of it or not, and I don't think that's ever going to change. What Christians CAN do is use those prayers as Jesus instructed - in the secret places of their hearts, where only He can hear...no theatricals or grand announcements needed.

Ninja-Kitten Having other people pray for me bothers me because they're trying to help me in a way that I disagree with completely. Like Quaila said, I have two perfectly sound legs. If you try to perform surgery on them, I will be upset. Prayers don't challenge where I stand, they just annoy the heck out of me. It also shows that the people who pray for me have an absolute disregard for my wishes. I'm talking specifically about people I know who walk up to me and tell me they will pray for me, including my name and the exact details of my life. It bothers me because the people praying feel so smug and superior because they have a god they can talk to and I don't. For the most part, these people are the snarky ones who don't actually listen to anything the Atheist community says. I should have rephrased this title I suppose... "Please don't TELL me if you're praying for me." What I don't know can't hurt me. But if someone ends a religious debate with: "YOU KNOW NOTHING FOUL INFIDEL! I SHALL PRAY FOR YOU AND SAVE YOUR SOUL SO YOU ARE FOREVER IN MY DEBT!" Because that has happened. And it is awkward.

Ninja-Kitten And @tacoman, you're really not doing a good job on the Atheism spot. CONVERTING ISN'T NICE.

HuddyJoy0524 "Try to think about this reasonably. I'm assuming that you don't believe in Allah, the Muslim God. Imagine that you sat down to chat with a Muslim person, and he realised you believed in the Christian God. Suddenly he gets very quiet and says, "I'll pray to Allah for your soul." I would actually feel honored if a Muslim said this to me. It means that they care about me and want me to be happy and they want me to be saved. It might not change my mind, but i respect that. When people say they are praying for you, its because we care! We want you to find that same spiritual peace that we have! That is all :) As for the people yelling and being disrespectful and such, just ignore them. They are probably trolling anyway or young immature kids. But, as a Christian, i pray for LOTS of people. Atheists, agnostics, other christians, muslims, world leaders, nobody is counted out. i know i do it because i love people and i want the world to be a better place and i want to help. People who are being superior about it and snarky and such well...thats not very christianlike. i actually get VERY uncomfrotable sharing my prayers with others and praying in front of other people because i think its a personal thing as well. Side note: It's not a Christians job "to convert." its supposed to be our job to tell you the good news and its up to God to change your heart. People who are trying to convert are not leaving it up to God. So anyways, a lot of that was jumping around and stuff so i hope you made sense of it :) If you ever want someone to discuss with, feel free to message me. I will fairly discuss with you anything you want and anyway you want. Sometimes talking it out with people helps both parties gain respect and understand one another more (i dont know a lot about atheism either) And i promise i wont end a conversation with: "OMG YOU ARE A TERRIBBEL PERSON YOU ARE GOING TO HELL!!11!! I WILL CONVRERT YOUUUU!" ;)

Ninja-Kitten Personally, I am just a spiritually peaceful as it's possible to be. I am at complete peace with myself. I know it's not your job to convert people. I've told many Christians that myself! But to us (to ME at least,) this isn't "good news". This is some random person trying to explain why we're wrong, even if it's phrased in the nicest way. But thank you for your polite comment :)

alisonfaith297 um. as christians IT IS our jobs to spread the word out. converting people is part of it.. its part of evangelism. (i know the dictionary has it own definition for it but in the bible evangelism is part of converting people. but living in the modern society we live in, if someone tells us not to convert you, we dont force it. BTW: i just skim through all the comments so i may be completely off topic with what you are on but if so, just ignore my comment.

Ninja-Kitten Well. I could tell you not to convert me. But you'd never manage to anyways. So please don't annoy me by attempting to convert me!

thetacoman @ninjakitten- I see youre less of a mean person without your buddies to back you up. FOR THE LAST TIME! I am not at the Atheist club to convert you. I am there to STUDY you and your beleifs (if i can say that without being creepy :P)

misanthrope86 Don't try to suggest that that us "buddies" have ganged up on you in the Atheist spot. We have attempted to debate with you, but that has been a struggle, as you don't respond the issues put to you. It only seems like ganging up to you, because there are a lot of us over there who can articulate our thoughts about Atheism and religion in a way that challenges your beliefs. If you can't cope with that, that is your shortcoming, not Ninja-Kitten's or anyone elses.

Ninja-Kitten Oh tacoman! Here's a learning opportunity! You see, this is the Christianity spot. I am not a Christian. I very much do not belong here. I am here to learn and understand. Therefore it is in my interests to be polite, civil, and not post articles explaining why Atheism is the right thing to do. I am more hot-tempered on the Atheism spot because I DO belong here and also because we're attacked there more often. Most people here are pretty good about being polite and not telling me I'm going to hell, but when they DO tell me stuff like that, I try to shrug it off because this is really THEIR place and not mine. It's like taking my hat off when I somehow end up in a church. I don't believe and I don't really care, but I know others care and I know it matters to them in their place of worship. YOU on the other hand, arrived at the Atheism spot, posted an article that was innocently titled "The Turnoffs of Christianity" and then proceeded to explain why Christianity was good and true, and why abortion is murder, and why homosexuality is a sin. Things that, as a whole, the active members of the Atheism spot disagree with. You neglected to give factual reasons to back up your positions, instead decided to repeatedly say that the women's rights arguments were crap and that abrotion is murder. Period. See the difference?

Quaila O.o o.O I feel objectified, I am certainly not something to be studied like a labrat. Last comment by Lexa: Agreed in whole. I personally get the vibes that tacoman is very obstinate in his views...

Ninja-Kitten Agreed, the correct thing to say is "I come here to encourage mutual respect and understanding between religions!" Not "I come here to study you O_O"

Dearheart *gigglesnort* Shall I bring out a bug jar and magnifying glass? xD

Ninja-Kitten *pokes bug jar* That looks a little small...

gir5136 OOOhhh can I join in the study??

para-scence I dunno, I can see why that would upset someone... But I just want you to know that sometimes when we tell someone we're praying for a person, we're not praying that they're going to be "turned into a Christian." For me personally, and other people I know, it just means we're praying for the best for you; to have a good life. But sorry that it offends you :/

tiagih Well honestly I don't mind atheist or any others of different creeds and religions so long as we have a mutual respect. but i will say this. " Please don't waste your prayers on a proud and happy person who just happens to be an Atheist." Jesus came for the sick and blind not the ones who can already see. Prayer is not really a way of trying to help out as much as it is the only way Christians can communicate with God through Jesus. If I pray for someone I am merely asking God to show more mercy on someone. But hey life isn't over yet, in time all questions and doubts are answered, or so I am told

Sappp As an atheist, I understand that Ninja-Kitten gets annoyed by this as I used to respond the same way. But now I don't see it like that anymore. My grandma is Catholic and whenever I need to go to the hospital she lights a blessed candle for me. I do not think this actually helps but it is the thought that counts. Some of my non-religious friend say 'I'll think of you' 'Good luck!' and I see thing like the candle burning or praying the same way: as people showing me they care for me.

mdutzer I don't care who anyone prays for... I think it's a waste of time. I hate when tragedy happens and people say I'll pray for them or we need everyone's prayers. People need action, help, donations. No matter how much anyone prays nothing will happen. It's a polite way of saying I don't want to do anything else to help you but I'll pretend to care by telling people I'll pray for you. My family always says they are praying for me and every time they do I donate money to www. frf.org in their names.

Bladewarrior @mdutzer that is entirely correct