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Critical Analysis of Twilight Swali

Why do Twilight haters hate Twilight so much...??

Why do haters hate them soo much?
Is it...
The shabiki obsession?
The plot?
The characters?
The films/movies?
The actors?
The sparkling vamps?
au do wewe just find the series stupid?
What wrong with it for them?
 juste_123 posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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Critical Analysis of Twilight  jibu bora zaidi

mandapanda said:
Alot of antis dislike Twilight for those reasons wewe listed I'm sure. I mean, even though I'm a fan, I can admit that some of the shabiki obsession is obscene. au that the films don't always convey what the vitabu are about and it just seems like they are pimping physical appeal of characters. au that the sparkling Wanyonya damu are different.

And, maybe it is the plotline. There are holes in the plotline and weird concepts such as imprinting. However, each person takes something from the series. Something they see as positive or negative. Love, devotion, loyalty, etc. Some people are inspired to improve themselves, to write, improve academically . Where do wewe think all the Twilight fanfiction comes from? Some people are inspired kwa the characters. Some may not see why they are likeable, but who are we to downplay that inspiration? Isn't it a good thing that people are inspired?

However, some twilight haters just hate the series to antagonize the fans, I think. Without a reason. au reasons that are unjustified.

But, then again, how is their hate justified? Disliking Twilight, well that's their conclusion based on their opinion. And Twilight mashabiki like twilight based on their opinion.

So basically, it's opinion versus opinion. Both sides fighting and trying to decide who's right. But I say, who says there has to be a right side? We're all different people. There's no definitive answer. It's not wrong to like Twilight, but it's not wrong to dislike it either. Who says there has to be an absolute?

I find it silly. Pitting against one another? Trying to have the final say on who is right to like what. We're all people who like different things. That's where beliefs comes from, political views, religions, morals, etc. The orodha goes on and on.

So why do twilight haters hate Twilight so much? Who knows. Some people dislike it because it's everywhere. But doesn't that happen all the time? The Beatles were everywhere, Miley Cyrus was everywhere, Justin Beiber is everywhere. It's guaranteed that not everyone had liked them au currently like them. In my opinion, trying to convince people to hate Twilight is just as bad as the fangirls trying to force people to like Twilight, au call people names in spite of what they believe. Also it's kind of hypocritical.

Whether it is personal issues with the series, issues they find offensive au inappropriate, au they think the series is stupid, it's their opinion. They are entitled to it, but they don't have to be openly hostile and rude about it. Respect goes a long way. :)
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posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita 
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Majibu

HaleyDewit said:
1.A lot of trees have been sacrificed for Twishit
2.It's deathly boring
3.Sparkling vampires?Really?
4.Edward is a pedophile and a stalker.To every girl who thinks Edward's the perfect boyfriend: a guy who watches wewe when wewe sleep,is not romantic,but creepy.
5.There are a lot of plotholes
6.Bella has as much personality as the spoon I'm looking at right now.
7.Quotations like 'liquid topaz eyes' (since when are eyes liquid???)and 'it's an optional choice'(Where does Smeyer live,because it's obvious they don't have a dictionary there)
8.Bella is the stereotype of the woman before feminism.She's completely dependent of her stalker boyfriend and is totally helpless without him.
9.Bella despised and abuses her friends.
10.Bella finds the external zaidi important that the inner.Otherwise she would've treated Mike with a little zaidi respect.
11.There's no upendo in Twilight.The only reasons we know why they're so attracted to each other are Bella's smell and Edward's perfect external facets.Considering neither of them has a personality they can't learn to know each other better and therefore their relationship is based on these external facets.This is not love,but lust.If Edward hadn't been so perfectly good-looking Bella wouldn't have adjudged him a sekunde glance.And if Bella's mind wasn't closed,Edward wouldn't have any interests in her.
12.Bella is a stupid whining cry baby.She gives a clearly depressed impression and in the sinema her facial expression rarely changes.So she's depressed.Why?There's no cat who knows.
13.Smeyer keeps saying the same thing.We know Bella can't make a songesha without inaonyesha her clumsy nature.We know Edward is perfect.We know it rains a lot in Forks.
14.Bella's considered the new role model to many girls.Bella also gets pregnant in Eclipse.Forgive me if I do not see the connection between 'role model' and 'getting pregnant as a teenager'
15.Bella imprints?? her baby to Jacob as a consolation prize because she thinks Edward's hotter.
16.Bella uses Jacob.She knew he had feelings for her and she exploited that.For example: she made him fix a motorcycle for her so she could catch a glimp of her precious Edward and the moment Edward was back she ran back into his arms and left Jacob like his feelings didn't matter.
17.'Bella Swan' means 'Beautiful Swan' I think she's still in the ugly bata phase.I'm just saying it's a stupid name?
18.Smeyer claims she's as good as J.K.Rowling.Every Harry Potter shabiki who has read Twilight will hakikisha that this is bullshit and wishful thinking.Smeyer doesn't even reach Jo's ankles.She's a horrible writer.
19.Edward can't read Bella's mind.Reason: Bella doesn't have a mind.
20.The whole Twilight mess is based on a wet dream.
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 1.A lot of trees have been sacrificed for Twishit 2.It's deathly boring 3.Sparkling vampires?Really? 4.Edward is a pedophile and a stalker.To every girl who thinks Edward's the perfect boyfriend: a guy who watches wewe when wewe sleep,is not romantic,but creepy. 5.There are a lot of plotholes 6.Bella has as much personality as the spoon I'm looking at right now. 7.Quotations like 'liquid topaz eyes' (since when are eyes liquid???)and 'it's an optional choice'(Where does Smeyer live,because it's obvious they don't have a dictionary there) 8.Bella is the stereotype of the woman before feminism.She's completely dependent of her stalker boyfriend and is totally helpless without him. 9.Bella despised and abuses her friends. 10.Bella finds the external zaidi important that the inner.Otherwise she would've treated Mike with a little zaidi respect. 11.There's no upendo in Twilight.The only reasons we know why they're so attracted to each other are Bella's smell and Edward's perfect external facets.Considering neither of them has a personality they can't learn to know each other better and therefore their relationship is based on these external facets.This is not love,but lust.If Edward hadn't been so perfectly good-looking Bella wouldn't have adjudged him a sekunde glance.And if Bella's mind wasn't closed,Edward wouldn't have any interests in her. 12.Bella is a stupid whining cry baby.She gives a clearly depressed impression and in the sinema her facial expression rarely changes.So she's depressed.Why?There's no cat who knows. 13.Smeyer keeps saying the same thing.We know Bella can't make a songesha without inaonyesha her clumsy nature.We know Edward is perfect.We know it rains a lot in Forks. 14.Bella's considered the new role model to many girls.Bella also gets pregnant in Eclipse.Forgive me if I do not see the connection between 'role model' and 'getting pregnant as a teenager' 15.Bella imprints?? her baby to Jacob as a consolation prize because she thinks Edward's hotter. 16.Bella uses Jacob.She knew he had feelings for her and she exploited that.For example: she made him fix a motorcycle for her so she could catch a glimp of her precious Edward and the moment Edward was back she ran back into his arms and left Jacob like his feelings didn't matter. 17.'Bella Swan' means 'Beautiful Swan' I think she's still in the ugly bata phase.I'm just saying it's a stupid name? 18.Smeyer claims she's as good as J.K.Rowling.Every Harry Potter shabiki who has read Twilight will hakikisha that this is bullshit and wishful thinking.Smeyer doesn't even reach Jo's ankles.She's a horrible writer. 19.Edward can't read Bella's mind.Reason: Bella doesn't have a mind. 20.The whole Twilight mess is based on a wet dream.
posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita 
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Well said!
TDI_Angel posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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bahahahha awesomeee
FandomCRAZE posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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Um made she gets pregnant in breaking dawn. She was also married
analisetwilight posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
Mermaid-Tail said:
I'm not completely sure I'm qualified to answer, as I'm not what I'd consider a hater. I'm one of our anti spot members, but my opinion of the series is nowhere near angry au passionate enough to qualify as hate and I have nothing against anyone who likes Twilight.

For a lot of people I encounter the biggest reason for their dislike of the series is concern over the messages sent to young women, which some, myself included, find sexist and promoting of abusive behaviour in relationships.
There are other things about the series I'm personally not a shabiki of, and I discuss them here since I'm interested in the opinions of people on this spot, and curious about the books' success which I don't fully understand, but while there are other aspects I dislike, the thing about the series that put it on my radar was my concern over the messages it sends to young women, which I find negative and inappropriate.

For those who get zaidi aggressive in their dislike, it often seems to start out with them being frustrated that a series they dislike is always shoved in their face, because there really is no escaping it at the moment, which can be annoying for those who dislike it. Add that to the common cases of some Twilight mashabiki being rude to any who dislike the vitabu (though I understand not all mashabiki are that way), it's understandable though not excusable that some who dislike it get annoyed to the point of becoming haters.
I should say, despite not liking the vitabu I do not condone being anything less than respectful to twilighters, and believe as long as a shabiki of the vitabu if polite to wewe then wewe have no right to be anything but polite back.
I hope wewe find this spot to be have zaidi of the first type of anti I mentioned (the disliker rather than the hater), and know the ones who kuvuka, msalaba the line into hate do not represent antis as a whole, because I honestly am interested in the opinions of fans, and completely agree with mandapanda that there is no right au wrong, just opinions.
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posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita 
deathchick9 said:
The shabiki obsession like an anime I know *cough*cough*Shugo chara*cough*cough*

It's lack of plot

I loath the sinema and actors

and of coures the way they butcher both Wanyonya damu and romance
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posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita 
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Hear, hear!
Mrs-Grint posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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Wanyonya damu are so cool. Meyerpires are not at vampires, I'd qualify them zaidi as blood-thirsty human-sized pixies.
HecateA posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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They are shone from the real un sparkly vampire society
candlewax567 posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
chagrin91 said:
I think its mostly coz of teh fame and the hype it gets I mean to be honest wewe know and i know that as well that before Twilight it was all Harry potter but after Twilight people kind of got obsessed with Twilight rather then Harry potter it got zaidi fame then Harry potter people got angry the HP mashabiki and started Hating people who liked Twilight because Twilight had kind of stolen the chokaa light form Harry potter
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posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita 
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YES! I'm a HP fan, and when I'm walking at bookstores n stuff, I hate it when I see these huge tables full of Twilight merchandise, and these llittle shelves with 3 HP vitabu back in the corner.
hp_rocks posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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It's a faze/fad that will die out just like everything before it as well as anything else that is new that comes along. It too will be big and exentualy die out. I see alot of HP mashabiki and Twilight mashabiki butting heads (and some are just anti on both au one) because one series is gettinb bigger than the other au vice versa, but seriously if wewe like something fine, if not then also fine. If some poeple stopped making such a huge deal out of something it tends to die down to something reasonable.
kutebare posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
bri-marie said:
First off, let me say I'm not your average "hater." I like the first book, and the third book. I don't go out of my way to bash the series, au the fans. But I do dislike the series as a whole, especially the sekunde and fourth books.

It's everything wewe mentioned above: the plot is sloppy and filled with holes. The characters don't develop at all, the sinema don't necessarily follow the vitabu the way they should, and I hate the fact that her Wanyonya damu sparkle and her "werewolves" aren't even really werewolves. And I have dealt with some crazy, scary, fans. It's the message of the vitabu as well.

Mostly, my biggest issue with with Stephanie Meyer herself. If she wrote this series and admitted that there were problems, it'd make me a little warmer to the series. But she doesn't. Whenever a shabiki asks a swali that isn't stated in the books, au points out a flaw with the story line, her response is "it's fiction," au "you're kusoma too much into it." A good writer understands and accepts that they are not perfect. They understand that not everyone will like their book. She can't take criticism. Literally. The only way a shabiki can get a hold of her is through her website, which is mediated kwa her brother. Her brother has stated that he does not give her letters that say anything negative about her uandishi because he doesn't want her feelings hurt.

She's arrogant, big-headed, and takes complete advantage of her fame. She compares herself (and often tries to make her self look better) to great writers such as Shakespeare and S. Morganstern. Here's a direct quote from an interview (Wesley and Buttercup, if you've never seen the movie au read the books, is from the story Princess Bride kwa S. Morganstern):

Tw Staff: kusoma Twilight it came to me the story of Westley and Buttercup. Is Bella and Edward's upendo True upendo like theirs?

Stephenie: Actually Bella and Edward's upendo story is better than them.

For me, that is a complete and utter turn-off for a series.
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posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita 
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..Better than Westley and Buttercup?What.
PoisonRose posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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Yep. She alisema their romance was better because Westly "only loved Buttercup for her looks." She also alisema that Buttercup "was an idiot . . . and weak." I found out about it through a Youtube video.
bri-marie posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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LOL, I saw that video. And once, she was asked in an interview about what she thought about her mashabiki beating people up, and wewe know what she did? She laughed. LAUGHED I TELLS YA.
GemonkDruid posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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*shakes head* What a great role model.
bri-marie posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
PoisonRose said:
I dont think I would hate it so much if it hadnt exploded the way it did.I just hate walking into Walmart and seeing an entire section of clothes and jewelry for Twilight and its kind of annoying walking around school and seeing tote bags and t shirts proclaiming what team theyre on.
I hate the message it gives young girls.I actually knew a girl my age who wanted to change her name to Bella and wouldnt answer to her actual name.
I hate that people who read it think its a wholesome story with good writing.Also the fact that its first person,strikes me as creepy,especially considering who wrote it.It really is like bad fanfiction.
The female lead is not much of a lead at all.She doesnt set a very good example and relies too heavily on a boy she practically just met and knows hardly anything about.Im sure there are alot of girls out there who think thats what their lives should be about and that they need a boy to live.Or that its okay and romantic if he sneaks into their room at night to watch them sleep au refuses to let her see her friends.
And the movies.Wow,the movies.
It really ticks me off that these sinema are getting so much fame when theyre really horrible.The uigizaji is just awful and wewe can practically see the kuunganisha when they pull a stunt.Hearing that cheesy dialogue out loud is just cringe worthy.Apparently,their idea of a troubled expression is heavy breathing and constipation.Is there any swali that every boys hair is solid hairspray?
Also that the actors just upendo being in the spotlight and cant live without being the center of attention while other far better actors and rolemodels stay away from the paparrazzi.
I hate it,but I dont necessarily hate the people who like it.I have just one rl friend who hates it as well,my most close Marafiki are fans.Im only sad that my sister and mom are interested as well and we have to waste money on those movies.Luckily,neither of them are readers.
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posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita 
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I totally feel you. Those are the many reasons why I hate Twilight.
PrincessVandal posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
HecateA said:
The haters are not gay, (why is that an insult anyways?) they just dont share your view of the saga. And if wewe say Twilight haters are 'gay', what about Harry Potter haters, Narnia haters, hum? Are they 'gay' too just because they don't share your opinion?
Back to the question,
Haters have all sort of reasons. I'm nto a hatter myself, zaidi of an anti, so my answer isn't completly called for.
What I dislike is...
-Bella, her attitude + how she is portraed
-The message
-Plot holes, and from what I've heard Stephenie Meyer doesn't aknowledge them.


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posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita 
Emmalie1935 said:
The haters are just jealous :) lol
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posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita 
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lol, jealous of what?
Mermaid-Tail posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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what are we suppose to be jealous of???
snusnu13 posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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OH MY GOSH I alisema I WAS KIDDING
Emmalie1935 posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
hilee said:
people talk a lot about them n the directorz of thoz moviez rnt best 4 that movie job (they should hire the 1 who is good @ romantic drama than horror/watever)

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posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita 
livelydebate said:
Cause it's stupid.
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 Cause it's stupid.
posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita 
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this is a twilight club
TaylorGirl84 posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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No, not really. There are many antis here. Just look at the content.
renrae posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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Ya i agree with wewe it is totally stupid!!! I hate it
redhawks posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
kutebare said:
My reply is to the girl above HaleyDewit
to her completely obscene remarks. Now I do agree with the first one who ilitumwa to this swali that people are entitled on their opinions, but have something to back it up. I will not rewrite her replies, but instead orodha my majibu to them in the same order.A lot of what wewe alisema in just plain crude and inaccurate.

1. Umm did wewe think they cut down the forest and remade it??

3. Well why not? The mwandishi took a different approach on the vampire subject. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that is like someone telling an mwandishi how to write and what to write. I’m not a huge shabiki on them ‘sparkling’ but at the same time I do like it in the fact that it’s different instead of the repetitive ‘sun kills them’.

4. Pedophile doesn’t count when wewe stop aging before wewe hit the legal limit.

5. I do agree here. There are a lot of things left out that are in the vitabu and not in the sinema but that goes with EVERY movie that comes from a book. If they were to put everything in the movie from the book the movie would be 5-6 hours long au more. But what gets me on this is that if wewe follow vitabu and their movie counterparts then this would be an automatic without pointing it out.

6. If wewe have read the vitabu this is how the character Bella is. Her personality it like any other teenager who’s live has just been completely turned upside down. Her personality is not meant to be like some bubbly blond haired cheerleading stereotype. Her personality is portrayed perfectly for the situations she is put through.

7. Ok again, this is like telling an mwandishi HOW to write. I find this ‘opinion’ to be demeaning. For example on the ‘liquid topaz eyes’, first the eye does actually have a liquid over it, it is what keeps the eye moist (I did not know I would have to give a biology lesson to someone who looks to be at least a high school age). 2nd, the mwandishi is describing his eyes. The zaidi detail that is put into it the better the reader can grasp exactly what the character looks like. Not to mention that is sounds a lot better than saying something like ‘gold eyes’. That’s plain and boring. I can tell wewe are not a writer so wewe do not grasp the entirety in what she is saying.

8. If wewe have read the vitabu and know even the basics about Wanyonya damu wewe would know that the one they are with au even their ‘food’ becomes fixated on them. It is just a slight bit of the concept on Wanyonya damu and how they ‘mark’ their mate. Once marked they long for the vampire until their death. But even if we were talking about people in general and not the vampire, it is the same thing. The girl (or even boy) wants to be near the other. They want to remain close to them and be with them as much as possible, so really what is the difference??


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posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita 
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9. This is where my own personals experience can come into play. First off she’s depressed. The person that alisema he loves her zaidi than anything just dumped her in the woods and left just like that. If wewe were ever dumped kwa a person wewe loved zaidi that anything in the world wewe would act the same way. wewe isolate yourself and wewe want to be alone. wewe are in your own world at this time and not purposely. So if wewe have never experienced something like this then yes I suppose wewe would say something like ‘she despised and abused her friends.’ But she did not despise then nor did she abuse them, she was going through her own breakdown and for this point it was not like she could get much help from her Marafiki as none of them knew that Edward was/is a vampire. 10. Read the book… She had no interest in Mike to begin with other than as a friend. So because she did not jump up and down for the Mike character wewe are saying she is only looking at the outside and not the inside? 11. Again, read the book. All throughout over half of the first book they are asking each other maswali and getting to know each other. Seriously, if wewe are going to put statements like this up at least read the book first; because kwa just this ‘opinion’ it lets me know wewe have NOT read it and actually know nothing.
kutebare posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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12. Wow, ok again it is the personality type of the character. If she was doing it wrong I am dead sure the director would have alisema something to her. Edward au not, the Bella character is not, and yes I will say it again, some bubbly cheerleader stereotype who uses words like ‘omg and squee’ while jumping up and down for no apparent reason. 13. Again, it is all detail and description. Without it, it would be a very very short and un-detailed story that would not sell. While it is repeated, it is not repeated as much as wewe are coming off as stating it does. 14. I cannot maoni on this one too much as I have yet to get to the book Eclipse, but it is not in the movie as that I have seen. But on the subject in general, wewe might as well say the same thing to every teenage onyesha on networks like MTV among many other shows, commercial and sinema within the media as a whole. On the other hand Bella is a fictional character. It’s getting pretty bad if a fictional character is now a role model.
kutebare posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
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It's all based on looks for her.
bri-marie posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
GemonkDruid said:
In response to your maswali (in order):

-Possibly. There's nothing wrong with the fans, they just have a bad reputation. And wewe all know that reputation is everything in society. Also, a Twi-fan called me a moron and a nerd, and another one called me an inbred. Do wewe know how much that sucks? No disrespect intended. But it does suck.

-Plot? What plot? I wasn't aware that there was a plot. Sure, there was a little plot in Eclipse, but that we never got to see the action first-hand. And in Breaking Dawn, there could have been a plot, and there was a BIG build-up to one... but, meh, didn't work out.

-Yeah... most of the characters, not a lot going for them. As far as Meyer's concerned, wewe are Bella. YOU. It's like in Dora the Explorer au something like that, where they ask wewe where the uyoga Forest is au whatever.

Edward is supposed to be the "epitome of perfection", and everyone is supposed to upendo him, but seriously? Perfect is not perfect for everyone. Like my perfect afternoon would be watching old Angel episodes, but someone else's perfect afternoon might be lifting weights. ;D

Jacob was a good character to begin with, but then Bella toyed with his mind, and he became broken. :(

Forget about the rest of the characters, they were just pushed out of the spotlight.

-The films... the first one was terrible. Second, eh, so-so... and the third was HIGH-larious. I don't have high hopes for the fourth movies, though.

-I don't really have anything against the actors. They're just doing their job, is all.

-Ooh, we reached a sore spot here. I hated the Wanyonya damu sparkling. What happened to the good old days, when vamps were "grr nasty"? Sure, it was an original idea and a spinoff of the old legends, but aversion to sunlight is a SYMBOL. Symbols are like cookies... if wewe get rid of them, people will get MAD.

-I must admit, I did find the series a little bit stupid. :P

-What's wrong with it for me is that it is a series with so many flaws and 2D characters, and it is degrading to real vampires. Like... well, if wewe know me well enough, his name starts with S.
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posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita 
Ca11um12 said:
I'm male, and I only hate this series because:
A.
itruins guys chances of getting girls due to
their obsession with what most guys can't give
them.
Ninety percent of guys would do anything to take
care of a girl they care about, but girls
never give them a chance because their too
afraid to onyesha it straight away, I know I am.

B.
something I've noticed while kusoma the series,
(yes I have read it, to see what the fuss was
about) is that Bella plays with both Ed and Jacobs
hearts, which pisses me off because, if a guy
did it to a girl, she'd be upset and he'd be in the wrong, but this girl does it constantly,
and no one cares, it's ridiculous.

But a swali I want to ask is...
Why do girls think Edward is the perfect guy?

Do they want a guy to dedicate his entire being
to her and not have a life of his own?
It just doesn't make sense to me.

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posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita 
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"Why do girls think Edward is the perfect guy?" From what I can tell, its because yes, he does give his entire being to Bella. Personally, I would want the guy to have his own life outside of me, but apperantly that's not what most girls want. Also, I very much agree with your point B.
November99 posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita
XChatterbox14x said:
I suppose the shabiki obsession plays a big part as well as the fact that Wanyonya damu sparkle. And i think it's also because twilight is compared and contrasted to other vampire media, such as dracula and buffy the vampire slayer. I'm not really a twilight hater (i like some parts and dislike others) so i'm not too sure, but that is what i'd think they'd hate about twilight.
What i don't like about it though is the sparkling vampires, and the shabiki obsession. Some mashabiki are really nice but other mashabiki are unfortunately not, and i think its silly where there are some mashabiki out there who can't tell the difference between fact and fiction, we can all daydream etc but i think some take it too far :S x
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posted zaidi ya mwaka mmoja uliopita 
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