kbrand5333 [b]"lol, I don't care that you didn't know I existed until like a week ago and that you've loved me since you found out about me even though you thought I was already dead".[/b] Yes. I, too, didn't get why Jeremy/Henry was so pissed at Ichabod. He didn't even know his son existed, and when he found out, it became a priority of his to find out what happened. That being said, a friend who knows a lot more about human psychology than I explained it this way: When a child has a missing parent (whether it be dead or just gone), that parent often will be either put on a pedestal or vilified. In this case, Jeremy's life was so awful, he considered his missing father a bad person for not being able to stay alive to be with his son. There's no logic to it at all, but that's exactly the point. For my part, I want someone to explain exactly WHY Henry helped them up to that point. Why did he sever the blood tie and save Crane's life? Why did he give them advice for safe travel in purgatory? Was it all just part of the plan to get Katrina out of purgatory and into the Horseman's grasp? And couldn't the Horseman just have gone into purgatory and gotten her? He's undead, I would think that would give him license to stroll in and out of purgatory at will. But I don't know. What I also don't get is the portion of the show's fans who are mad at Ichabod because of his decisions (redrawing the map -- something he literally could have done at any time, even AFTER they decided they needed Katrina, letting Abbie stay in purgatory, etc.). What [i]should[/i] he have done? It was Abbie's decision to stay in purgatory, and he was not happy about it at all. Anyway, I will definitely be watching season two, even after seeing things saying, "More Katrina in season two!" as if that's something we [i]want...[/i]

matchesrulezu Yeah, Jeremy's life was hard. I can understand why he harbors the anger toward Katrina and Ichabod. And it also makes sense that he would vilify Ichabod because Jeremy is now in cahoots with Moloch. Of course Moloch would nurture the anger and hurt Jeremy felt toward his parents so it became hatred. I just can't believe that it didn't faze Jeremy [i]at all[/i] to see how much it pained Ichabod to find out about him. Heck, Ichabod went back into that house to face the demon that endangered his family centuries ago. At that moment, we got a glimpse at the very real anger that Ichabod was carrying. But none of the obvious pained emotions that Ichabod had over losing his son fazed Jeremy. None of it. Didn't Ichabod cry and hold the Golem as it died? Didn't Ichabod even thank Golem for protecting his son when he couldn't? And Jeremy was right there watching all of it. I mean, Jeremy's hatred for his parents must run really deep for none of that to faze him at all. But still, I feel like it should have flickered just a little bit of emotional turmoil within Jeremy to see Ichabod so hurt over him. As for why Henry/Jeremy helped Ichabod and Abbie, that's about as much as I can think of. It was all just a ruse to gain their trust so he could trick them into thinking that the path they were going down was the right path. He also wanted them to go into Purgatory because he knew that when they did, the prophecy would be fulfilled and that's exactly what he wanted. I'm sure Abraham could have gone in for her himself, but then two things wouldn't have happened: Jeremy wouldn't have gotten the satisfaction of seeing her reaction, too, when he revealed himself. And by Ichabod and Abbie going in after Katrina themselves, he succeeded in tricking them to fulfill the prophecy. So now the two Witnesses are separated and in very daunting positions: Abbie is trapped in Purgatory and Ichabod is trapped in his son's grave. I'm sure that as far as Abraham, Jeremy, and Moloch are concerned, they've succeeded and won the war. And I'm guessing that Moloch's desperation in retrieving the map before Ichabod and Abbie could was a ruse, as well. But Henry/Jeremy really wanted Ichabod and Abbie to go into Purgatory and I believe that brief moment of panic when Ichabod decided to burn the original map (after so cleverly memorizing it, lol) was real panic. Admittedly, I was upset when Ichabod redrew the map. I could understand, the map is, after all, his best connection with his wife. But I was upset because I thought he was going to handle it differently. When he showed Abbie the re-drawing, I wasn't upset with him anymore because he was honest with her about it. Which meant that I knew he wasn't going to willingly and consciously betray Abbie and turn her into Moloch. As for Ichabod leaving Abbie in Purgatory, he didn't have too much of a choice. Abbie volunteered and didn't really give him much say in the matter. They were under the impression that Katrina was needed to prevent the Second Horseman from rising and Abbie was willing to take Katrina's place so they could do that. Plus, Abbie even said that she wanted to face Moloch. Ichabod and even Katrina promised that they would come back for her once they took care of the Second Horseman. None of them knew until it was too late that things weren't going to go according to plan.

kbrand5333 I agree with everything you have said. I also remembered a while back that at the end of the Sin Eater episode (where we first met Henry/Jeremy, interestingly enough) that Crane promised to always listen to Abbie. And that's what he did. She said "I'm staying" and he didn't like it, but he listened to her. I think Jenny will help Abbie get out of purgatory. Because she's kind of in that in-between place right now herself, and also she told Abbie that she was "better at getting out" than Abbie was (perhaps foreshadowing?). I also think Crane still has Abbie's smartphone on his person, which may help him get out of his hole. Those are my theories, put forth now, just in case I can say "I TOLD YOU SO" when the show starts up again in the fall. Or not. My theories are usually wrong.

matchesrulezu You're right. Plus, any arguments Ichabod might have had couldn't be said once Moloch showed up while they were still in the church. I think that was also part of the plan. By Moloch showing up, Ichabod didn't have any chance to try to convince Abbie to go back with Katrina and leave Ichabod behind instead. There was no more time. I think Jenny will help Abbie, too. Before Abbie left with Ichabod and Henry/Jeremy, Jenny said that if Abbie wasn't back by sundown (I think), that she was going to go after Abbie herself. It would make sense, too, since Abbie and Jenny have just begun rekindling their bond as sisters. I do believe Ichabod does have a phone on him, but it might be the silver flip-phone because that's the phone I saw him using at the beginning of the episode when Henry/Jeremy called with "urgent news". Either way, I think any phone will help at this point. As for Jenny's current state of health, I am interested in finding out. I don't think she's dead, though. I think she's just unconscious. But maybe in her unconscious state, Abbie will be able to seek her out or vice versa. With their sisterly bond, it might be easier to find each other. Abbie can give her the rundown on everything and my guess is that she will send Jenny back to save Ichabod first. Maybe Abbie can see what's going on with Ichabod and can then let Jenny know that he is trapped. Then I think that once Jenny can save Ichabod, Ichabod and Jenny will probably save Abbie and then go retrieve Katrina. To me, it would make sense for them to save Abbie then Katrina because the Witnesses are stronger together than apart, which they'll need to fight the Headless Horseman for Katrina. Even Moloch knows this. Hence the prophecy and doing everything they could to trick Abbie and Ichabod into falling for it. But if Abbie won't be able to leave without Katrina taking her spot back in Purgatory, then they'll have to retrieve Katrina before going back to Purgatory for Abbie. But I think that maybe since Abbie isn't really supposed to be in Purgatory in the first place, that maybe she can leave without needing someone to take her spot. Katrina was [i]supposed[/i] to be in Purgatory, so she couldn't leave without someone staying behind to take her place. But with Katrina out of Purgatory and Abbie technically not belonging there, maybe Abbie will be able to leave with Ichabod and Jenny once they come for her. So that's my theory: Abbie will see the danger Ichabod is in, will find Jenny while she's unconscious, tell Jenny what's going on, send Jenny to save Ichabod, Jenny will save Ichabod, they'll go to Purgatory for Abbie, they'll come back, and then save Katrina from the clutches of Abraham (who plans on doing God knows what with her). Unless, of course, someone has to take Abbie's place for her to leave. Then they'd have to get Katrina first. Or maybe they could trick a bad guy into taking the spot.. Does it have to be consensual? lol. Because there's no way Abbie would let Jenny stay behind and while this may all end with Katrina going back to Purgatory in the end, the chronological order of Save Ichabod > Save Abbie > Save Katrina with the help of Jenny makes more sense to me. Especially if there's supposed to be more of Katrina in Season 2 and they make it sound like she'll be spending more time in our world than she would if she did have to go back to Purgatory so Abbie could be released. Whew, sorry for the rambling. haha.

kbrand5333 Jenny's not dead. Lyndie got upped from guest to regular cast member for season 2. And I'm curious about Katrina not being able to leave purgatory without having been forgiven is about. We know she did a lot of shady stuff, but what [i]exactly[/i] does she need forgiveness for that's holding her in purgs, I wonder?

matchesrulezu Ahh, well that's good. I like Jenny. I've seen some questions and comments on interviews referring to whether Jenny is dead or not and it just didn't strike me that she might be dead. I automatically assumed she was just unconscious. It never even occurred to me that it was a possibility until I read that stuff. But she's been promoted, so no worries there. :) Right! I totally forgot about that, but I really wanted to know, too! Does she need Abraham's forgiveness? Jeremy's? Maybe someone in her old coven or the coven itself? Is it God's forgiveness or someone we haven't even met yet? Ugh. That's going to bug me. lol. If it's Abraham, Jeremy, or her coven that she needs forgiveness from, the [i]why[/i] could be easy to figure out. Abraham: dumping him for his best friend. Jeremy: leaving him behind. Coven: "breaking the rules" and putting that spell on Ichabod. There might be more that we don't know about regarding the coven, but they didn't seem too fond of Katrina breaking the rules. But if it's someone else entirely, then that leaves us the [i]who[/i] and the [i]why[/i].. And the why would probably be more interesting than the who. Unless it's some crazy plot twist, which it could very well be.

kbrand5333 I want Katrina to actually turn out to be bad. 'Cause then at least she might be interesting.