One, I can't believe you created a forum solely for this response. However, of course he did, there is no disputing that. You cannot become captain become a captain unless you have achieved Bankai. The only exception is "Trial by combat," by which you kill the former captain in front of an audience of 200 witnesses. The only squad known to have participate in this method is squad 11, notable Zaraki.

There is no way he achieved "personal recommendation" because you need six recommendations and approval by the remaining captains. Unfortunately, six of the captains at that moment had been released of their duties, which is why Kisuke Urahara fled to the human-world with them.

One, I don't need an update on the ways to become Captain; I am well aware that you can become in either three ways:

One: Show your Bankai

Two: Personal recommendation (which, as you said, would have been impossible at the time)

Three: Defeat a current Captain

You are incessantly naive; who's to say that Aizen didn't have the Shinigami under the control of Kyoka Suigetsu at the time? It is perfectly reasonable, otherwise Tousen would never have become a Captain, as he was the only surviving member of a Squad sent to deal with the problem in Rukon. It would have seemed very suspicious if Tousen had come back from the mission and the Captain and Vice-Captain had been Hollowfied and banished, plus the other Squad Nine members died. Aizen obviously used Complete Hypnosis to have the Head Captain and the attending Captains hallucinate and see how Aizen would have wanted the Shinigami to see a Bankai, one they thought suited his personality.

By the way, I made this topic so I could have a good discussion with someone like you, who thought the exact opposite of me.

You obviously don't quite understand his shikai's ability. It cannot implant thoughts into his opponent's minds, he can merely manipulate their sensory experience. However, it was stated that he constructed a fake image, depicting his zanpakuto as a water-type. So, though he would be able to manipulate the appearance of his shikai or bankai, he wouldn't be able to convince them to make him or anyone else a captain.

Also, do you think someone as powerful as Sosuke Aizen wouldn't have mastered his Bankai? It is his sheer strength that prevented him from releasing his Bankai. At what point did he ever need it? None, by my recollection. He's able to dispose of three captains with only his shikai, as its ability of "complete hypnosis" is so convincing.

As for your insults, I merely laugh them off.

He has control over all five senses. He even literally made Toshiro stab Momo in the fake Karakura Town. I understand what you are saying but I don't think you understand what I'm saying. If he can make a Captain hallucinate to the point that the Captain has actually stabbed a comrade, then he can use those hallucinations to make it appear that he has a Bankai.

I think 'someone as powerful as Aizen' would have no need of a Bankai. What could possibly surpass a Zanpakuto that controlls all five senses? Plus, Aizen didn't need it cause he had obviously been planning to use the Hogyoku to become a transcendant being from the moment he learned of the Hogyoku's existence.

By the way, I wasn't insulting you. I simply said that you are naive to think that Aizen would even need a Bankai. You underestimate Aizen's intelligence. He had everything he ever did planned, to the point of even changing other people's lives, just from these plans. He manipulated everybody around his plan. I just simply don't think he would have ever wasted his time learning Bankai.

Plus, he probably hated Shinigami powers. Aizen would have seen his Zanpakuto as a means to an end, where the end was a power transcending that of Hollows and Shinigami alike.

It's probable. Truth be told, we only lightly understand the capabilities of his shikai. We know it creates illusions that affect all 5 senses, and tbat it can create illusions of people. Whether he can make illusions that are as extensive as a bankai is debatable, though certainly not beyond the realm of possibility.

With regards to Aizen's strength, that says little about his access to bankai. We've been told several times that bankai is a rare trait that not everyone can achieve, and while strength is necessary, it certainly isn't the sole determinant.

As an aside, crazieone, is it possible for you to have a disagreement with someone and be courteous? The worst he's said of you is that your opinion's naive, yet you interpret that as an insult. You basically told him in your first post that he has no clue what he's talking about, which seems a mite more insulting.

He didn't "make" him stab momo. Toshiro was already preparing to attack him, he merely manipulated Toshiro's sensory experience. Again, his shikai can make a target misinterpret any of the five sensory modalities. He cannot implant any mental directions. As I mentioned above, Toshiro was preparing to attack and Aizen fooled him into believing that Momo's body was actually Aizen himself. He simply altered shape and mass of what Toshiro was viewing. I understand what you're saying, and I am saying you're misinformed. Whether or not he controls the five senses has nothing to do with anyone's will. He cannot shape a persons desire to act upon their emotions. He simply reshapes reality to capitalize on what they may or may not be doing. If I convinced you that your reflection was an image of a monster, that indirectly influences your reaction. Though before you saw that you may not have been frightened, there is no guarantee that you would response with violence (i.e. attack them with a blunt object). The same goes for Captain Aizen. He cannot directly manipulate how a person responds. It is by manipulate their sensory experience that prompts the change, therefore his control is indirect. He does not physically control their reactions. Which means he did not "make" Toshiro attack Momo. He believed he was attacking Aizen, but Aizen switched the bodies. And from there, his shikai manipulate the mass, shape, and appearance of Momo's body, convincing Toshiro that he struck Aizen.

And, it doesn't matter whether he needed a Bankai, most captains don't use them, but they are all required to have achieved that level of control. Head-Captain Yamamoto doesn't release his Bankai, but he likely has one. The argument that he "might not need it" isn't strong enough to say that he hasn't achieved Bankai. And, it isn't naive to think that a former captain has a bankai. That is absurd logic. That makes me laugh, wow!

Whiteflame, I think I will respond to you in the same manner I am accustom.

Always a displeasure.

Hey crazieone106 like the explanation of Aizen shikai ability that was great.

Unfortunately, such "displeasure" is a necessary evil. This is, of course, as long as it keeps your turgid opinion far enough from my view. The true displeasure is your cavalier attitude disguised as genuineness.

Thanks, Kevy! At least someone understands my logic. Apparently, others believe that the five senses are on the same level as thought. I wasn't aware that their were six senses, the sixth being cerebral.

Okay, I get what you are saying and, I'll even admit that 'make' was worded badly, but now we are venturing from the topic. The point is that, even though you say it is sensory, that just means all the more that the people in the room at Aizen's Captain's Exam were seeing what they thought (or sensed, as you so eloquently put it) was Aizen's Bankai, though in reality in was his Shikai. I am actually rather surprised that you can't seem to grasp this concept, Crazieone, as it seems quite water-tight. If Aizen can tweak Shinigami's senses to see them attacking Aizen, then it turns out to be someone else, then why can't that same prinicple be applied in my situation, where Aizen is tweaking the Shinigami's to see his Bankai, rather than a Shikai?

I don't see Whiteflame as having a 'cavalier attitude' its not a cavalier, simply because he agrees with me, or he disagrees with you and thought that you were being uncourteous.

Hey did'nt Squad 4 Lieutenant said that Aizen zanpakuto was a running water type. Of cause this was not true when in fact Aizen had made them see mist which he explained had the effect of confusing the opponent in to attacking each other. So couldn,t he make see, for example a stone or something look like that a moon that releases mist for a Bankai and explained that this extends his mist reach by releasing a huge amount of mist.

I think you have a point there, this means that he probably could have made it seem like he was releasing a Bankai, by using Kyoka Suigetsu like this.

I never denied that he used his shikai's ability to manipulate his Captains' Exam. I am the one that mentioned Isane's comment that she thought his Zanpakuto was a water-type, implying that he did in fact use his shikai to fool them.

However, your argument remains fairly one-dimensional. Even if he did in fact use his shikai to manipulate the appearance of a bankai, it doesn't refute the fact that he may have still achieved Bankai. He doesn't have to use it, to have it.

I think the question is did he need Bankai to become captain and also did he see it as being necessary in his plan.

Crazieone, you've gone from saying how completely wrong I am, to saying that is isn't the dispute, but instead that he could have achieved it. The only time Aizen would have even thought of achieving Bankai would have been before that Captain's Exam, which he no doubt used Kyoka Suigetsu. I say that he had no need to learn Bankai as his Zanpakuto was good enough as it was and his plan for the future didn't include learning Bankai, as it would be useless when he was a transcendant being.

Well, if he simply used his shikai to simulate the appearance of a bankai, no. There is little information to discern whether he needed his bankai to achieve his plan. However, he never, to our knowledge, used it within the Bleach series and he had tremendous success. Just because we didn't see it, though, doesn't mean he never achieved Bankai or used it.

And that's your opinion, Black. Wear it proudly. Honestly, though, I don't believe any of those arguments are strong enough to dispute him having a Bankai. Sorry. He didn't even realize, until the very end, that the Hogyoku would enable him to move to such a superior dimension of power. Your entire argument is predicated on the concept that he "knew" he wouldn't need his Bankai because he would eventually become a "transcendent" being.

Well, being transcended beyond Hollows and Shinigami is enough to want that more than a Bankai. I'm not saying he predicted how powerful he was going to become, but he knew that it would be superior to Hollows and Shinigami. Why learn a Bankai, if your plan is to go beyond Hollows and Shinigami? And we both know that Aizen had planned to go beyond Hollows and Shinigami, he even said so to Isshin before he underwent his metamorphosis.

I think you need to articulate yourself better then. If that isn't what you meant, you have a problem because that is exactly how it read. "...and his plan for the future didn't include learning Bankai, as it would be useless when he was a transcendent being." Those are your words and they clearly state the argument that his plan didn't include Bankai because he knew he would become transcendent. Otherwise, why wouldn't it be a part of his plan?

And no, he never believed he would undergo such a metamorphosis. It is interesting how you don't see the flaw in your argument. All that he learned about the Hogyoku was far into the future, especially the very end result (i.e. the multiple transformations). He didn't know any of that information and he would achieved Bankai a LONG time before the onset of becoming a captain. You don't quite understand tense, do you?

Hey Crazione106 what was "predicated" by Black is reasonable of the fact that Aizen seeked to become stronger by bridging the gap between shinigami and hollow and by that become stronger than bought.

It doesn't, though. And is everyone aware of what the word "predicated" means? And I don't know what the latter portion of your sentence means.

So? I never said that Aizen intended to become as powerful as he did. Aizen's idea of a transcendant being was once he underwent the metamorphosis. You then said that he didn't think he was going to be that powerful, maybe your right maybe you aren't but, either way, I am 'articulating' myself fine. We both know that he did become a transcendant being in the end, and I'm not going to beat around the bush and say that in a way that makes you believe that Aizen didn't intend to become as powerful as that, plus what proof do you have that he didn't intend this?

Plus, if he didn't think he was going to be that powerful, why was he so surprised by Ichigo's superior power?

Btw, Crazieone, Kevy1 meant predicted. Its called a typo. Like I love to say, 'shit happens', so deal with it XD

I think my contributions to this discussion are over. It is obvious that you neither understand my point of view nor agree with it. And therefore, there is no point in articulating it. Although, I am fairly certain you aren't grasping my vocabulary. That and your ability to articulate yourself seems limited. And with that, you can be "right" and discuss how astute you are. :)

crazieone, you do have incredible diction, but it's sad that you're using it for the sole purpose of insulting and demeaning others who have different points of view from you. I had a chance to learn that quite a while ago, and I was hoping it wouldn't happen again, especially not on a question where we're simply explaining our perspectives on a certain character. I posted in this forum in response to the question, providing a viewpoint that you didn't care to respond to. Instead, you denounced my character, treating this as a viable place to launch ad hominem attacks against me.

You've made it quite plain what you think of me, and truth be told, I don't care. You're an ass. In the end, it matters little to me what you choose to say about me, and I probably shouldn't have been surprised to see your dismissive response to my points. I was hoping that, at the very least, you would not subject everyone to a public denunciation of my writings and opinions (which you refuse to read or understand), though apparently you saw this as the perfect opportunity. How thoughtful.

Shall I then dictate and articulate myself better? I don't care about your opinion anymore and you seem to be the one who has a limited grasp of understanding when it comes to Aizen's character. You seem to have absolutely no idea about who Aizen is. He's not some Shinigami who cares about learning his Bankai, he is an incredibly intelligent man, who seems to have a problem with Shinigami and the powers, which you evidently can't quite understand. Aizen doesn't give two flying fucks about Bankai and I doubt he would have gone to the trouble when he had plans for the Hogyoku. I'm not saying that he thought he was going to become a transcendent being, but he definitely knew he would surpass Shingami and Hollow alike, which he even says. Why would he learn Bankai, when he wanted to surpass their powers? It would just seem like a major contradiction of his character.

Anyway, I don't have a problem with you, but you are seriously naive and incredibly narrow-minded.

Oh and by the way, I don't want to be 'right', I wanted to have a good discussion, not a war.

Ok back to the question at hand I feel that there is absolutely no way of knowing.

1. He couldn't have defeated his captain as he was hollowfied at the time.

And 2. Aizen was a lietenant making him next in line anyways for the captain spot. So that covers him having to show off a flashy bankai.

Also Aizen had already known what the hogyoku actually did. You say he didn't plan on becoming a transcendant being yet he did. Aizen however never knew of his transformations quote. "The hogyoku doesn't want me to lose to a mere human" this states the hogyoku has a will of its own or responded to Aizen's will for more power which is how the hogyoku works. So with the knowledge of the hogyoku I doubt Aizen would have even bothered at that point to even learn bankai. However Aizen was beyond qualified to learn bankai as his stats are twice that of the average captain.

Using his shikai's op'ness can't be used as he always vied for power if the hogyoku didn't exist he would be riding the bankai train along with all the other captains.

I hope this helps and I can pretty much understand both points of view here even if crazy went a little overboard.

Well, you already seem to have things figured out, Black. Bravo! You make such a compelling argument. I mean, really, your zeal is almost convincing enough to sway me, but, alas, it didn't quite do it.
Here's the most humorous part of this pseudo forum: The idea that you want people to both share their opinion and express an interest. I say this, despite your enthusiasm, because none of the events that have transpired are remotely encouraging. And though I may not be the most supportive person, I can accept that, it doesn’t bother me. I have never once felt a responsibility to be kind or accepting. So you may take that however you wish. That issue aside, you are engaging in the same hubris you accuse me of expressing. Your arguments are less constructive than mine and from the very beginning you had an unshakable and concrete opinion on the subject matter. Even without my response, you would insist that he did not have a Bankai and therefore all following arguments are feckless. A discussion, as you have expressed an interest in producing, will ultimately possess some level of compromise. You cannot very well engage in a discussion when your sole argument in unshakeable. Otherwise, it is neither a discussion nor productive. It is simply a war of opinions whether no one truly agrees on any one fact. It is absolutely absurd.
I won’t even bother reading whiteflames’ response. I am positive it is littered with minutia, definitely not worth reading.

That argument makes no sense! He would have learned Bankai more than a hundred years before the onset of those transformations. And no, he did not know the Hogyoku would bolster him to such a superior plane. The timeline and your logic do not coincide. He wouldn't be learning his Bankai after he became captain, he would have achieved it long before becoming captain. Black's argument that he never needed it because his Shikai is powerful enough is a better argument.

Gaia is right. Crazieone, you are now insisting that my ideas were more unshakeable than yours, but yours are far more shaky than mine. You've just been changing your opinion on everything, since the start of the forum. So further argument is eveidently useless, as you can't be reasoned with. I'll just continue with people who want to discuss it.

I have not changed my opinion once, you are just too inferior to grasp my point. It's alright, not everyone is meant to be in the higher echelons of the intellectual community. And, there will be no discussion, they all agreed, more or less, with you.

He talks of hubris, and then refuses to read anything I write, saying it's not worth his time. Wonder if he understands what the definition of "turgid" (the very word he used to describe me) is... Or maybe he just doesn't know what to make of the word "hypocrite."

Personally, I find it hilarious that he's attacking your argument when he's changed his point (from you being completely wrong to there's no way to be certain) and uses what are, frankly, only mitigating arguments. Arguing about the reason for him doing it only increases or decreases likelihood, he's practically giving you the argument that it's reasonably possible.

I'm certain he won't read this either, but I'm relatively certain he has less experience in competitive debate. Pretty words don't improve his already weak arguments.

Wow, talk about pompous! And he used to say that I had a lofty opinion of myself. Calling you inferior? Saying that he and he alone is of the upper echelons of the intellectual community? I have a message for anyone who thinks like that: fuck you very much.

Yeah, you are a pompous twat, Crazieone. He probably doesn't know what the word turgid means, because he obviously doesn't know anything about biology, which would take even more intelligence than any he could possibly have to offer. So I say this to you, Crazieone, stop acting like a philosophical imbecile, because its rather unbecoming of you. And fuck you, because I know I'm more skilled in the use of English, than you are.

And also, Whiteflame is light years ahead of you in intelligence. You are simply a narrow-minded fool, who says one thing, then eventually comes changes his opinion and says that he is in the higher echelons of society. Whiteflame is, plain and simple, far more intelligent than you and also writes better than you do, Crazieone.

Perhaps I was wrong, whiteflame. Your comments may be worth reading. Oh, and not because I think you're worth considering, but for their sheer comic value. Albeit, I skimmed your most recent post, I should receive some kudos for reading any at all. Although, a bit too showy for my taste.
As for my earlier comments, they are simply sarcastic nonsense. Why would I bother comparing myself to anyone on this forum? It is even more absurd to think anyone would be insulted by my words or even take them seriously, considering they don't know me. Then again, I can see where someone might find my comments undesirable. Might I digress and say, you, whiteflame, are too good at chastising. You have certainly developed a true art for the self-righteous rant. Superb, really! All sarcasm aside, you could be the hero and contribute a logical argument to this forum. After all, nothing I said made sense and I flip-flopped on the issue. I haven't seen any evidence for the prosecution, but maybe you'll prove me wrong. I'd enjoy that, you wasting your time. I’d say this is a waste of my time, but it helps me avoid reading about neurobiology. Oh, and I will admit, watching you get up in arms over my comments kind of tickles me.

The progression of this one-sided argument has become quite enthralling. You've become their savior, whiteflame. What a proud moment you have here. I recommend you savor it. Granted, I doubt they'd regard you as highly as they do if you had a dissenting point of view. But, hey, this is coming from someone who is not very bright and can't argue in the league of someone on a high-school debate team. Shame. Shame, indeed.

Oh and plus, I'm also smarter than you, and I bet you are looking 'turgid' up in the dictionary, wondering what it means. When you find it, I hope you realise that you are a retard and have no idea about anything actually involving the use of the human brain.

I can't believe you actually are trying to convince me that you didn't say: "However, of course he did, there is no disputing that. You cannot become captain become a captain unless you have achieved Bankai."
Then you went further on to say, later in the forum: "I never denied that he used his shikai's ability to manipulate his Captains' Exam. I am the one that mentioned Isane's comment that she thought his Zanpakuto was a water-type, implying that he did in fact use his shikai to fool them.

However, your argument remains fairly one-dimensional. Even if he did in fact use his shikai to manipulate the appearance of a bankai, it doesn't refute the fact that he may have still achieved Bankai. He doesn't have to use it, to have it."

There's the evidence right there, plus this: "That argument makes no sense! He would have learned Bankai more than a hundred years before the onset of those transformations. And no, he did not know the Hogyoku would bolster him to such a superior plane. The timeline and your logic do not coincide. He wouldn't be learning his Bankai after he became captain, he would have achieved it long before becoming captain. Black's argument that he never needed it because his Shikai is powerful enough is a better argument."

I know you won't even bother to read or try to understand this, but, oh well, I don't care. *Nonchalant sigh*

By the way, Crazieone, I wouldn't bother writing back. I'm not going to read any more of your crap. Perhaps you will understand that most blatant way of saying, "fuck off."

There is one flaw in your argument, friend. I do think that he has a bankai, after all, he is captain. And, I agree, I did say, he "may" have manipulated his exam with his shikai. But no where in there did I say that because he manipulated his exam using his shikai that he wasn't capable of using a Bankai. Sorry! Throughout the entire, how should I describe it, senseless "debate" I always urged that he had a bankai. No where in there did I say, "I don't think he has a bankai." All my arguments point to him having a bankai, no matter how he used his shikai. Gosh, look at you, becoming so infuriated by my comments when I wasn't even serious. I can't believe I had such an affect, especially considering how intelligent you believe yourself to be. You should know better, Einstein.

I was going to write a long response to you here, but I've realized something: you take this all for a joke. Oh sure, there's logical arguments in what you've posted here, but if half of the posts on here have been in jest (as you've claimed), then we need not take you seriously at all. That makes things so much easier.

The real joke here is that you're making these responses at all. I don't need to prove myself to you because you're not worth it. At all. I'm sure if I told you my debate and educational backgrounds, you would probably treat them as falsehoods anyway. You came on here to rant, and at least that much, you've done beautifully. Well done.

No, not at all, I can appreciate educational accolades. I am sure you are quite decorated. These accolades are quite visible through your many...helpful and entertaining posts. Without your contributions I fear to imagine the fate of many forums, including this one. I mean, your comments alone spurred countless efforts to debase my arguments and my character. Truth be told, if it had not been for your senseless yammering, I may not have returned. Do you see now? The immeasurable influence you have. Now I bet you want to polish those various debate trophies you have perched on a shelf, far above your desk, which is likely busied with your educational pursuits.

...I'm sorry, did you say something?

No, it must be the wind. Its been rather windy in Christchurch, actually. Stupid wind!

Who? Me? No, not at all. Just a silent observer.

Hahahaha! Black, you're too funny. You make me laugh, that is always a good thing.