I had this huge debate with two weslah lovers on youtube, and since I put so much thought into it and it's so long, I may as well post it here too.
It's clear that Wesley cared for Lilah to a certain extent, I'm not disagreeing with that, but it's just blatantly obvious that he loved Fred so much. I mean, after Lilah's death his life went on much the same, but when Fred died he was just completely shattered, it was so hard to watch. Even in their last conversation she says, "would wewe have loved me?" and he replies, "I've loved wewe since I've known you... no, I think even before that".
And Fred is not boring, she's endearing and so sweet! I upendo that about her, that she's so nice to everyone and she's always optimistic. And she's a good guy!
That's the only thing I like about Lilah, that she was there for Wesley in season 4. But I don't think Fred abandoned him, she was the only one out of Team Angel to constantly refer to him and she was always like "we should go get Wesley for help" and it was usually Charles who disagreed and stopped her. She cared for Wesley even after what he had done. And she definitely isn't a pointless character, she was often the binding force of the group, and there is not one character on the onyesha apart from Lilah who didn't like her. After her death, everyone mourned until the end of the series.
Take Lorne for example, we had never really seen him get mad at anyone until Eve refuses to co-operate when they're looking for majibu about how to save Fred, and he says, "Winifred Burkle once told me, after a sinful amount of Chinese chakula and in lieu of absolutely nothing, 'I think a lot of people would choose to be green. You're shade, if they had the choice.' If I hear one note, one quarter-note, that tells me wewe had any involvement, these two won't even have time to kill you" I was actually shocked that he would say that, because he's *usually* very calm. It just proves that she was a binding force for the friendship of them all.
The only thing that really annoyed me about season 5 was that Cordy got such a short farewell. I mean, it was a great episode, but everyone seemed to songesha on wayy to quickly, especially considering Fred, who died two episodes later, seemed to get so much sympathy. But that's the crux of it, really. The heartbreaking thing was that most people had been rooting for Fred and Wesley from the beginning, and they finally got together (aka Fred realised her feelings for him) and she dies. Don't get me wrong, I also agree with wewe when wewe say wewe felt sorry for wesley, don't go thinking Fresley mashabiki don't care about his feelings! Wesley is my favourite character on Angel, and it was so hard for me to watch him so broken for the rest of the series.
Back to Fresley. Fred, throughout the series, has zaidi than shown she connected with Wesley on a deeper level. "It wasn't something in wewe , Wesley. It was something that was done to you." - Fred
"I don't know what kind of man I am anymore. " - Wesley
"Well, I do. You're a good man." The fact that they were never seen having a "deep" conversation just makes the events of a hole in the world zaidi heartbreaking - they never got the chance. And if wewe think Lilah knew Wesley better than anyone, here's a quote which possibly contradicts that "Come on, Wes... who knows wewe better than me?" -- Lilah
"Perhaps wewe don't know me as well as wewe think" - Wesley
As for your saying about Fred being the idealized version of who Wesley wanted to be with, I also get where you're coming from, but I have to disagree (again -- shocking, I know! xD). That may have been the case, but then explain to me why after her death this idealized version of Fred didn't fade? Surely after a few episodes he'd begin to rethink his relationship with her if she really were "idealized". But no, he speaks about her as if she were the light of his life, and she was.
Also, the fact that he murdered what he thought was his own father for Fred also emphasises she was zaidi than an idealized fiction to him. wewe don't go around killing your own family for someone wewe don't truly care about. Well, wewe don't usually go around killing your family at all-ok, I'll stop there.
"Fred: Part of wewe knew. Even if wewe can't admit it to yourself, part of wewe knew it wasn't him.
Wesley: No. I was sure it was him. wewe were there. I killed my father.
Fred: He was threatening your friends.
Wesley: He was threatening you. He pointed a gun at you, Fred... so I shot him"
Finally, if wewe really do think Wesley loved Lilah zaidi than Fred, explain why he was completely broken, even to the point of madness, after A Hole in the World?
"You can't... look at her without seeing...her body's awali owner. (Wesley chuckles)
But then, what comes out of her mouth, pure unadulterated vertigo. We look so tiny to her."
Whereas there are only a few sentences devoted to his grief for Lilah, which wasn't very much grief at all if wewe ask me.
Personally, there are some aspects of Lilah as a character I admire. I mean, she can stand up for herself, she's intelligent and beautiful. I just can't stand her with Wesley, and I don't think he was ever in upendo with her.
"Don't go making zaidi of this than it is. I'm not one of the doe-y eyed girls of Angel Investigations. Don't be thinking about me when I'm gone.
Wesley: I wasn't thinking about wewe when wewe were here."
Thanks for reading, hope it made sense.
It's clear that Wesley cared for Lilah to a certain extent, I'm not disagreeing with that, but it's just blatantly obvious that he loved Fred so much. I mean, after Lilah's death his life went on much the same, but when Fred died he was just completely shattered, it was so hard to watch. Even in their last conversation she says, "would wewe have loved me?" and he replies, "I've loved wewe since I've known you... no, I think even before that".
And Fred is not boring, she's endearing and so sweet! I upendo that about her, that she's so nice to everyone and she's always optimistic. And she's a good guy!
That's the only thing I like about Lilah, that she was there for Wesley in season 4. But I don't think Fred abandoned him, she was the only one out of Team Angel to constantly refer to him and she was always like "we should go get Wesley for help" and it was usually Charles who disagreed and stopped her. She cared for Wesley even after what he had done. And she definitely isn't a pointless character, she was often the binding force of the group, and there is not one character on the onyesha apart from Lilah who didn't like her. After her death, everyone mourned until the end of the series.
Take Lorne for example, we had never really seen him get mad at anyone until Eve refuses to co-operate when they're looking for majibu about how to save Fred, and he says, "Winifred Burkle once told me, after a sinful amount of Chinese chakula and in lieu of absolutely nothing, 'I think a lot of people would choose to be green. You're shade, if they had the choice.' If I hear one note, one quarter-note, that tells me wewe had any involvement, these two won't even have time to kill you" I was actually shocked that he would say that, because he's *usually* very calm. It just proves that she was a binding force for the friendship of them all.
The only thing that really annoyed me about season 5 was that Cordy got such a short farewell. I mean, it was a great episode, but everyone seemed to songesha on wayy to quickly, especially considering Fred, who died two episodes later, seemed to get so much sympathy. But that's the crux of it, really. The heartbreaking thing was that most people had been rooting for Fred and Wesley from the beginning, and they finally got together (aka Fred realised her feelings for him) and she dies. Don't get me wrong, I also agree with wewe when wewe say wewe felt sorry for wesley, don't go thinking Fresley mashabiki don't care about his feelings! Wesley is my favourite character on Angel, and it was so hard for me to watch him so broken for the rest of the series.
Back to Fresley. Fred, throughout the series, has zaidi than shown she connected with Wesley on a deeper level. "It wasn't something in wewe , Wesley. It was something that was done to you." - Fred
"I don't know what kind of man I am anymore. " - Wesley
"Well, I do. You're a good man." The fact that they were never seen having a "deep" conversation just makes the events of a hole in the world zaidi heartbreaking - they never got the chance. And if wewe think Lilah knew Wesley better than anyone, here's a quote which possibly contradicts that "Come on, Wes... who knows wewe better than me?" -- Lilah
"Perhaps wewe don't know me as well as wewe think" - Wesley
As for your saying about Fred being the idealized version of who Wesley wanted to be with, I also get where you're coming from, but I have to disagree (again -- shocking, I know! xD). That may have been the case, but then explain to me why after her death this idealized version of Fred didn't fade? Surely after a few episodes he'd begin to rethink his relationship with her if she really were "idealized". But no, he speaks about her as if she were the light of his life, and she was.
Also, the fact that he murdered what he thought was his own father for Fred also emphasises she was zaidi than an idealized fiction to him. wewe don't go around killing your own family for someone wewe don't truly care about. Well, wewe don't usually go around killing your family at all-ok, I'll stop there.
"Fred: Part of wewe knew. Even if wewe can't admit it to yourself, part of wewe knew it wasn't him.
Wesley: No. I was sure it was him. wewe were there. I killed my father.
Fred: He was threatening your friends.
Wesley: He was threatening you. He pointed a gun at you, Fred... so I shot him"
Finally, if wewe really do think Wesley loved Lilah zaidi than Fred, explain why he was completely broken, even to the point of madness, after A Hole in the World?
"You can't... look at her without seeing...her body's awali owner. (Wesley chuckles)
But then, what comes out of her mouth, pure unadulterated vertigo. We look so tiny to her."
Whereas there are only a few sentences devoted to his grief for Lilah, which wasn't very much grief at all if wewe ask me.
Personally, there are some aspects of Lilah as a character I admire. I mean, she can stand up for herself, she's intelligent and beautiful. I just can't stand her with Wesley, and I don't think he was ever in upendo with her.
"Don't go making zaidi of this than it is. I'm not one of the doe-y eyed girls of Angel Investigations. Don't be thinking about me when I'm gone.
Wesley: I wasn't thinking about wewe when wewe were here."
Thanks for reading, hope it made sense.
