Mason Shipper's makala - Let's Talk About Rebels. 

Ok, so for those of you that have been in the Unpopular Opinions (confessions) forum this is just the paragraphs about Jasmine, Ariel and Merida. These are considered the "rebel" princesses always breaking out the mold for obedient followers, but this is my "unpopular opinion" it\'s sort of a grey area for me.

I find Jasmine, Merida and Ariel to be very bratty, I like Merida more because in the end she learns from her mistake and (hopefully) isn\'t as selfish. But Jasmine and Ariel aren\'t quite off the hook. (Badumtss) I don\'t quite like how they treat their parents Jasmine is a princess and why I understand why she doesn\'t want her life lived out for her, but she needs some brains for example "Hey dad you\'re the sultan so change the law please." Or Maybe instead of running away I dunno at least prepare for going out there, remember she said herself that she was not going back at all, and just imagine how heart broken her father could be. She just never seems satisfied with the life she has and I think she should be more grateful, it\'s only healthy to think outside the box and aspire for happiness, but she has such an attitude I don\'t find her all that enjoyable. Onto Ariel, she has the same thing she has moments of kindness and gratitude, but she doesn\'t ever think about her family and makes a rash decision unlike Jasmine she doesn\'t have "diplomatic" choice like saying "Hey Dad don\'t you think we can befriend the humans." Seeing as Triton WILL NOT change his mind and what makes her sort of wrong here is that Triton has a legitimate reason to hate the humans i.e they killed his wife and stole there items, plus they DO eat fish, Ariel and her friends being fish. Ariel is want to know more and I admire that, but she should also at least want to listen to her father like Pocahontas did, but she frequently doesn\'t go to music rehearsals (something she fought for in Ariel\'s beginning) and generally displeases her father and is fine with that. I admire the side of her and Jasmine that want to discover, but all and all I think they need attitude checks, Merida acts bratty, but she never ran away. But then she is willing to give her mother some random strange food WTF Merida she is breaking tradition saying maybe she should make her own decisions and she does so with force (they way brats do) the only thing is in the end she realizes staying calm and using your head to settle debates instead of wild impulsiveness is a better way to achieve happiness, sometimes actions speak louder than words, but fighting never solves anything. Unfortunately that\'s why these lovely girls are starting to slip on my list, really I want to have a bit of a debate because I\'m not sure how to view them. So yah, I don\'t know if it\'s unpopular on here, but it\'s unpopular everywhere else to consider Ariel, Merida and Jasmine selfish.

Please Let\'s discuss. What are your opinions on these like minded princesses.

Jasmine is one of my least favorites. I don\'t really like her. I really like Ariel, but she\'s not one of my top 3 favorites. I love Merida though she\'s my 3rd favorite princess. I do think they all have bratty moments, Merida though, learns her lesson in the end. Ariel doesn\'t really learn her lesson though, she basically gets what she wants. I know she was supposed to have a happy ending and all but couldn\'t they have at least added in a lesson for her to learn? Anyways, on to Jasmine, I agree with you there, she does tons of bratty things and stupid things like running away. She\'s one of my least favorite princesses. I used to hate her, then I liked her, and now I dislike her again. All these princesses are pretty far apart on my list though, Jasmine near the bottom, Ariel in the middle, and Merida near the top. Also, it\'s not that unpopular from what I\'ve seen. There\'s a lot about Ariel, she has her haters and defenders, I haven\'t seen as much as Jasmine, and I know for sure Merida has haters. Anyways, nice points about what you think. I agree on most of it, especially Jasmine.

Although about Merida, she seems to at least have some people looking out for her, she\'s in the top 4 in my Smartest DP countdown, although that\'s different from thinking that she\'s selfish.

Yeah, they are pretty far away on my list as well. #4 Merida, #7Ariel and #11 Jasmine. I\'ve been thinking about this a lot seeing as I love to analyse and get the fact of everything before I make a "decision" being how much I like or dislike them. I\'ve met some peope who hate Ariel, but Love Jasmine then Hate Merida and Love Ariel and multiple combinations. I just think it\'s important (for me at least) to not just blindly love or hate something.

I agree. Also we have really similar placements. #3 Merida, #6 Ariel and #11 Jasmine.

I disagree SO much about what you said about Jasmine. It is not just because she is my favorite.

Ariel didnt learn her lesson at ALL. Merida did on the other hand. So I agree with that.

Jasmine actually did tell her father how she felt and tried to make a suggestion to him. Jasmine doesnt have an attitude. When you MESS with her, thats when she gets mad. She is generous and caring, and in the sequels, she is doing her best to help the poor people of Agrabah. I really think people should count the sequels more.

Jasmine is not a bad-behaved child. She wants freedom and adventure. Running away does not make a child a brat. Jasmine is just very outspoken. That does not make her bratty. I don\'t get when people call Jasmine bratty, but then they like Ariel. Not talking about you, but that is just one thing that bugs me. Ariel is WAY more impulsive and she doesnt think before she acts.

If you were controlled all your life, and you had no friends, not fun at all, wouldnt you feel the same way Jasmine did? It was wrong to run away, but still.

People always say when Jasmine was acting rude towards the prince that she declined, that was bratty. Well she was getting married a to guy that she JUST met. She didn\'t want to do that and spend the rest of her life being told what to do. That is extremely realistic.

I don\'t hate any of these princesses. As much as I\'ve tried to explain that they have flaws, most people just lump them into the "selfish category" and declare--- I HATE THEM. Maybe, that\'s fine. But no matter how many times someone has defended Elsa\'s sacrificial nature to me....I wind up finding her whiny, easily aggravated, and a coward.

A difference of opinion is good. I know that MOST people on Fanpop and MOST people outside of Fanpop hate Ariel. They think she\'s dumb, impulsive, selfish, and any, insert ____ any other nasty remark you want to say. I\'ve heard it all. Nobody thinks she deserves a happy ending, and people love the original fairytale where she basically dies, and never gets an immortal soul --- where she never attains her goal. The whole point of the story was her trying to reach her goal. Only Hans Christian Andersen was so angry at how people had treated him during his life, that he wrote a story where the main character was rejected punitively just like he was. I think Hans Christian Andersen had PTSD. What boggles my mind is that everyone else loves how he treated the little mermaid in his story. Does this mean lots of other people have PTSD, and don\'t like happy endings? Basically, I wonder how can everyone wish Cinderella a happy life with her prince, the bratty frog princess a happy life after kissing a frog ( in the original story the princess is very nasty to the frog, and yet when he became a prince he still came back and married her ??!?), Snow White and Sleeping Beauty a happy ending, Beauty a happy ending with a transformed beau, and even Anna and Elsa get a happy ending. I seem to find that every other story character gets a happy ending ( unless you\'re reading something perverted like The Juniper Tree), and people feel that the characters should all live happily ever after. Why do we wish the little mermaid the worst ending anyone can imagine?

That sounds like pretty sick-minded thinking to me.

Whatever. I\'m personally glad Disney gave Ariel her happy ending because her dad was a SERIOUS, CONTROLLING JERK, and he let his personal viewpoint RUIN HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS DAUGHTER. I found it a good thing, when he decided to open his mind to the possibility that not every human is evil. But Triton made sure that Ariel went to see the sea witch in the first place!!!! His actions actually drove Ariel to make a poor decision, and not the other way around.

Jasmine is not a brat. She\'s bored, and feels stifled and sheltered, and wants more out of life in general. I mean, being cooped up all day with only a tiger for company gets dull after a while. Plus, Jasmine has more head sense than her father, and this is...well....kind of why Jafar is so exploitative of both the sultan and his daughter. It sort of makes the plot work. Jafar is cunningly manipulative.

Merida, I used to hate. I found her a poor copy of Mulan, and not brave in the least, not initially. But Merida\'s bravery was not established by standing up to outside forces. Her bravery lay in her courage to admit her mistakes. So I finally was able to see how Merida was brave, and different from Mulan ( in a good way).

I don\'t have a problem with these three princesses. I have a problem with Elsa, whom everyone lauds as the most righteous/sacrificial of the bunch --- when in reality--- she flees from her problems, does not confront her enemy ( Hans) or her powers ( "I can\'t stop the winter!" is really lame), and leaves her sister to do all the sacrificing. Yeah. Like Elsa needs any praise. I won\'t give her any. I\'ll pity her, but that\'s about it.

^I understand, but mind she didn\'t ever try to offer a diplomatic solution and she\'s quite snappy even when her father is trying to be nice i.e. "Well maybe I don\'t want to be a princess anymore." "*groan* father" she never thinks that maybe she\'s making her father upset by going off, if your going to dislike Ariel for running off not caring about her parents you ought to count it for Jasmine too. Plus you said yourself "It\'s wrong to run away, but stil." Remember Ariel had the same "oppressions" except for King Triton has a justifiable reason to keep her in the ocean, granted Ariel had WAY more freedom. I\'m trying to analyse this from the most open view point I can think of. But you do bring up a valid point that she had little to no freedom and she (though ignorant) was kind best she could. So maybe Ariel is the bad guy? Again I need to debate this, so I can know for sure.

EDIT: Meant for coolsinger, before iwasneverhere commented.

^ I completely agree with Coolsinger. When I saw the movie Jasmine seemed to be very polite to her father at first trying to explain to him why she doesn\'t like the palace, the only times she\'s mean is when she\'s talking to Aladdin on the balcony, but still he was kind of a jerk and she lashed out. I can see where your coming from because I did feel that Jasmine could have came up with an easier way. I\'m happy you acknowledged how Merida does change at the end, not just stating the obvious that she was a bit of a brat in the beginning, because I just LOVE her character development. I do agree that Ariel was a brat threw and threw. I don\'t get Ariel fans for trying to defend her on this, I understand if you like her because she\'s flawed and I respect that. She wasn\'t really fighting for a noble cause, she was fighting for her own freedom. I bet people in Atlantica still hated humans after she left. I admire Ariel for her passion though, she just went and blew the whole thing out of the water (badumtss XD) Oh and I LOVE you for mentioning her in the sequels. It has ALWAYS bothered me how in the sequel she fights for music and I guess two years later she moved on to a new hobby and didn\'t care about music, It\'s like what the heck are you nver satisfied? give your dad a break! Anyway, good article. I hope I don\'t come off as mean.

Ok well Jasmine is "in the clear" I guess all things considered.

Merida has a solid character development, now there\'s only Ariel to be justified or deemed "guilty" *smacks gavel* order in the court.

"Ariel, please approach the bench! *flops over to defendants seat*

Well like iwasneverhere said, Triton was close minded and never thought that maybe he should listen to reason, but I wouldn\'t call him a jerk, he gives her pleanty of freedom, she has friends, music and well a princess\'s life. Ariel was my 5th favorite princess then she dropped down to 7th so it\'s not that I hate her, I just need a resolution. I admire her thirst for adventure and how she wants the freedom to explore the human world, she is fascinated by it and wants to learn, so that\'s good, but she isn\'t really grateful for the life she has, she skips out on things that are important to her family and doesn\'t really care to apologize for it. Granted she does show SOME appreciation to Sebastian and Scuttle for helping her, but besides a moment where she says "But if I\'m human I\'ll never be with my father or sisters again." She doesn\'t really think about her family. Also she never really apologizes to her family for abandoning them, not to debunk Sebastian\'s comment "Children got to be free to leed their own life." And the question there is (though Sebastian is right) is Ariel right for completely getting unattached to leave forever and discard all of her duties as princess (like the concert). That\'s my question and can\'t seem to find an answer.

Exactly. She never takes responsibility. She\'s the youngest, her father gives her the most attention, and she takes most of that for granted. Even the other Little Mermaid sequel she seems to never really realized how much she put her father through. She acts the exact same way to Melody that Triton acted to her, showing she never really did, even twelve years later, learn her lesson. I don\'t know how iwasneverhere tried to throw Elsa into all of this. Elsa acknowledges that she is going to end up queen soon. She makes sure that she was ready for her coronation so she wouldn\'t mess anything up. I will still stand by that it was smart for Elsa to leave Arendelle or she might have ended up killing everyone. Ariel on the other hand never accepts that she has to be a princess in Atlantica. She thinks it\'s okay for her to leave whenever she pleases. When it was a big day for the King, her father, she completely messes it up by saying she forgot, which I think is very selfish. I\'d be okay is maybe she tried to make it up to him, but no. The movie completely slides past that and still tries to paint the picture that she\'s perfect. That\'s just my problem with the movie. Feel free to chat about it :)

Looks as if Ariel is lawyer-less for the time being. Also quick note: Sebstian says "If only she shows up for rehearsals once in a while." So that means that she does this constantly not really any excuse for that. I\'m not crazy about Elsa, but let\'s just say my frozen heart for her is thawing so she has that on her side, plus she may be whiney in your opinion, but she never does anything purposefully to displease anyone *looks at Ariel* while some people are completely aware of there insubordination.

Elsa isn\'t my favorite either, that place still belongs to Mulan, I\'m just very defensive of her, saying that she\'s not as bad as everyone says she is. And that was a good point about Ariel always missing concerts, I completely forgot about that which makes me think if she was really trying to fight for music in the sequel and then just felt like it was no big deal makes me wonder if her dreaming about being human was something she just thought of last week. Like "hey you know what would be fun? If I had legs! I\'ll go ask daddy! *Triton says no* oh.... URSULA!!!" Another thing to look at is this one line is Part of That World, "bet you on land, they understand, bet they don\'t reprimand there daughters." Ugh, that one line kind of kills the song for me. It makes me feel like her whole dream is just because her life isn\'t absolutely perfect underwater so now she\'s just going to try to be human because, to paraphrase, "the grass is always greener on the other side" And it\'s funny because the next line in the song is, "bright young women" If she was so bright she would know that no matter where she goes life won\'t be perfect. Wow, I\'m whiny. I need a nap!

Ok. If I may. We are judging Ariel again, by the 1989 movie, and NOT any sequels such as Ariel\'s Beginning, nor the TV series that predates any of the events that occur in the 1989 flick.

To address Sk8r_ grl\'s comments: Rapunzel has the same problem that Ariel does, only about 20 or so odd years later: BOREDOM. Ariel loves new things to do. Rapunzel loves new things to do. Ariel makes up with living her boring life in the sea by collecting things, her only personal hobby, because singing is something her father and Sebastian WANT her to do for them. I got the impression that Ariel did once attend several concerts for her father. But it was a never ending request from them. Ariel got tired of the same gig. Rapunzel makes do with all of the activities she can do in her tower, and she repeats the same activities over and over again, getting progressively more and more bored over time. I.E., Ariel is bored, and so is Rapunzel. The shifting from one activity to the next is an attempt to keep curiosity and impatience at bay. It\'s an attempt to distract oneself and occupy one\'s mind.

To address the issues raised by BelleRose: I do find Triton OVERSTEPPING his bounds in his disciplining of Ariel. He can seek to protect Ariel, but he can not, does not have any jurisdiction over her capacity to be her own individual. I feel that Triton wants Ariel to believe in his fear of humans. He could have tried to listen to Ariel and have her at least explain why she believes all humans aren\'t bad. But Triton DENIES Ariel a chance to defend her position. I don\'t respect him for the way he bullies her into submitting to his viewpoint. It may be out of a parental desire to protect, but Triton is being ABUSIVE to her. Just like Elsa\'s father tells Elsa "to conceal, don\'t feel," Ariel is being told "humans are only bad, and I am not to hear you talk about anything related to humans ever!!" Does that sound right in the least? I don\'t think so.

Ariel needs to grow up. If we included the sequel of Ariel\'s Beginning, first off--- Triton banned all music in the ocean. Why? Grief over losing his wife and a lot of treasure. Okay. Does he communicate with Ariel as to why all music is banned ? NO!!!! He just tells Ariel that it is banned. No discussion at all over it. Ariel has to go hunting around to find the story of her mother\'s death, and figure out the reason for her father\'s dislike of music and his hatred of humans.

Fast forward to Ariel at sixteen in the 1989 movie. Triton\'s response is still to BAN something when he feels hurt or threatened. He only gradually allowed Ariel to introduce music into his life again--- and then HE DEMANDS that Ariel sing music at concerts that he mounts for the general public. Way to go, dad. You hate something, and then you suddenly love it, but now manipulate your kid for your own enjoyment. You got over your grief about your spouse, and then you exerted more "control" over the activities your child is allowed to experience. First you forbid your child to experience music. Now she\'s forbidden to visit the surface. See a pattern emerging here, dad? Nice going.

I\'m going with the theme that I gathered from watching a lot of Ariel trying to live in the sea. Her father loves to forbid people to do things. He is slow to let go of his grief, and he wants control over everything people do. I side with Ariel. Ariel WANTED more opportunities and more experiences. I admire her for pushing for them. And it was hard, and Ariel fell for Ursula\'s sneaky trick, because her father basically kept right on denying any opportunities to her.

I rest my case. Your Honor, BelleRose. I await the verdict.

You made some good points there, I\'ll write my refutation in a sec, I just wanted to appoint you for that. I enjoy debating with you Attorney, we should do it more often :)

^^^ LOL, lol. lol. I guess I do sound like an attorney. Ooops.

Anyway, I still feel like Triton DOES have some control over her. I mean he does overstep his bounds, but that not the point. Ariel is very young at age, being only sixteen. anything under 21 he can legally have any control over her, him being her parent. I don\'t think he was making her parade around for him making her do they show because in the movie Ariel\'s beginning she has no problem doing it in the underground club that they have going on. Triton was giving her exactly what she thought she wanted. Letting her sing and dance. I just can\'t imagine how he felt when he saw that Ariel now didn\'t want anything that he gave her and that she just blew it off. It was hard for him to even have to let her do anything associated with his wife\'s death (which I will be it was silly) but then to hear that she now wanted to live with the people that killed his wife must have been excruciating. That\'s like if my family member was shot in some kind of bad neighborhood and my family was still grieving him, and then I just bought a house there. And yeah I know not all humans are bad but I really don\'t believe than mermaids and merman stopped hating humans after she left. She wasn\'t like Pocahontas trying to stop the war between the two clans, her sole purpose for going on land wasn\'t to stop the war, it was so she can get HER happy ending. plus her argument wasn\'t valid. She based all she thought on human\'s just by one guy she sees and that was good enough for her to throw every thing at him. When Triton was in her lagoon she could have used her time wisely to explain herself like Merida did, but no. What does she scream at him? "I\'m sixteen! I\'m not a child!" I don\'t see how I could take her seriously either if I heard this. She is a child. The movie doesn\'t capitalize like I.E. Brave does about how they were both wrong. It\'s the story that basically centers around Triton learning his lesson, nothing else. And like I said before she had a lesson to be learned. She treated Melody the exact same way Triton treated her but again Ariel is portrayed as the good one and again I don\'t think she learned her lesson or connected the dots that this was irony for what Ariel did to her father. Plus Ursula wasn\'t very "sneaky" Ariel knew that Ursula was kicked out of the palace for being evil and her dislike for her father. The only thing that perceived Ariel to go along with it is Ursula is good with words, almost like a lawyer or a sales man. And she goes along with it just fine. She signed a legal contract knowing the penalty and if it was real life she would have to pay the fine. What if Triton wasn\'t magic? She would have stayed a polyp or have to live her life forever sad underwater, just like in real life. Plus if her whole family wasn\'t magic how would she have gotten her dream? I mean that\'s like me in real life just deciding, "I\'m bored, I want to be an alien now!" so I make a deal with the devil. And that\'s sort of how I view it. Okay I\'m out of breath I\'ll stop now. Feel free to contradict, attorney iwasneverhere to the defense podium. :)

Ok, something key: No assumptions "I got the impression that she did attend concerts, but it was a never ending request" also keep in mind Rapunzel has a room Ariel has the entire ocean, something that I don\'t think is quite putting them in the same boat. Same as along the way Rapunzel is feeling terrible for leaving the tower and debates whether to go back or not. Ariel doesn\'t seem to care at all, she never brings it up whilst making the deal with Ursula, but then again she can\'t really talk about it can she. Then there is when Sebastain is trying to help her out and she just falls asleep, as in she doesn\'t seem to understand the severity of the situation. Get points on Triton being overprotective I guess that counts as points towards Ariel. In legal terms Ariel is a minor (under 18) so I do feel that if Triton is her guardian it\'s only right for Ariel try to aspire to listen or follow basic instruction. True a Triton has no right to deny her happiness and freedom, but she is free only one rule: Stay away from humans. She is not allowed to argue her point so I see as the only decision for is to run away, but she doesn\'t leave a note and she never thinks maybe her father has a great point as well and she doesn\'t think how much everyone else has to sacrifice for HER happiness I.E. Triton giving up himself for her, so she doesn\'t belong to Ursula. She doesn\'t think that maybe an evil sea witch would maybe use her (the princess) against the king (Ursula did say she once lived in the palace, so shouldn\'t Ariel think she\'d want it back). Also not at her lagoon, but when Triton shows compassion "Do you think I want to see my youngest daughter snared by some fish-eaters hook?" And he makes a valid point. She shows force "I\'m sixteen, I\'m not a child!" Quite unkind if I do say so myself. Hmmm now it gets dificult, true she didn\'t leave to stop a war like Pocahontas did (point for sk8er_grl), but yet it was also important to get her way. (Point for iwasneverhere) But then again- and this is important- Her personal way, only for her desires. Repetition can lead to bordum, but she lives in the endless ocean- heck the only thing she doesn\'t have is electricity, but like I said before I can\'t assume. Then again like she says "Wouldn\'t you think I\'m the girl, the girl who has...everything." She\'s aware of much she has and she SHOULD be grateful, but she continues "I want more..." She isn\'t grateful. She isn\'t possibly bored with all that stuff is she? And if she is she doesn\'t prolong the happiness of something (just like she ever so quickly left her home). Which means she got "bored" of her sisters, father, friends she sacrifice all of that and their feelings for herself (as proven by TLM2: Return to the Sea, she hasn\'t seen them in years). Not sure if my free-flowing thoughts quite made sense. Why does she want to leave? Because Triton is overbearing his rules onto Ariel and she wants to be happy and discover on her own if the humans are bad and she is willing to leave everything and everyone she\'s known and loved for that. Triton has a justified reason and Ariel should try to listen, but she doesn\'t seem to care, she doesn\'t listen to him just as much as he doesn\'t listen to her. Triton broke her stuff to lay down the law and she broke his heart to say she doesn\'t care about his law. Now which ever is deemed worse is important too. They both need to be more open to each other\'s views, but that doesn\'t mean Triton was right for disrobing her stuff NOR does that mean Ariel was right for running away. Putting into perspective, let\'s put all of this into the real world the thing. What do we get? All in all they are both at fault, but Triton learns his lesson whilst Ariel doesn\'t she doesn\'t experience the penalty of what trusting bad people and disobeying your parents gets you, because she gets what she wants- heck Triton turns into the worm, the kingdom is ruled by Ursula and Eric gets hurt trying to save her. When she sees her father turn into a polyp, she looks up and says "YOU, Monster." Not something like "This is all my fault" or "I\'m so sorry daddy." Then she just jumps back to Eric and the whole current thing. Even before she says "I didn\'t mean to, I didn\'t know." Rather than taking blame, she did mean to run away, she KNEW the consequences if she failed, she\'s lying to Triton at this point. She makes excuses a lot like "I just forgot." Making sure that whatever it is it\'s without a doubt not her fault, which isn\'t very mature of her, thinking she can\'t be at fault is a bit pompous and bratty. Same as Triton not listening to reason, but this is about Ariel. She want everything to go her way and when her father doesn\'t try to talk "Do you think I want to see my youngest daughter snared?" She disregards it and shoots back with a snappy remark "I\'m 16! I\'m not a child!" There was no need to take that tone, then she goes back to say "If you would just listen!" When she doesn\'t bother to give a legitimate response to him. She\'s a minor and inexperienced true Triton\'s- and Elder\'s in general -predjudice isn\'t healthy to blindly follow, but she doesn\'t take it into consideration. And learns in the end Trition was somewhat correct with his accusations towards the humans. She gets what she want and doesn\'t learn other wise. In TLM2 she acts just as a Triton did and she knows she daughter is wrong, but like herself her daughter doesn\'t listen for her own good, to her parents who want to protect her. That\'s where Ariel is at fault.

Now I sound like an attorney. I\'m so frumpy today it\'s crazy. :3

Wow, all we need is a jury and this could be tv court. Great lawyering guys.

Lol, yeah I know. In a weird way this is making me tired. It\'s like one of those stand off duels you see where everybody stares at each other intensely waiting for the next person to make there move.

You mean...Chess? And it\'s the "Ariel is a brat" VS "Ariel is in the clear" hmmm knight to B5. Or Poker... "Aye, bobby your move..." I will not rest, until we\'ve reached a verdict! You know except at night if this takes a long time, but you get the idea. I wonder if Ariel is genuinely in the clear or not though it\'s so intense. I know the Tygers_Eye and KataraLover do this a lot I wonder if they\'ll get into this.

If they do things will get interesting. I was thinking more like a cowboy standoff, but both are intense. Maybe will finally have a jury, if we don\'t we will never reach a verdict.

While I will admit that Ariel is a little bratty and stupid sometimes (stupid is a harsh word, sorry), I wouldn\'t say that following her dreams and becoming a human is incredibly selfish. It\'s a dream. It\'s supposed to be for you and she has a right in her life to do what it takes at her own risk to find happiness; like we all do. Besides she unites Atlantica and Eric\'s Kingdom, and even though some merpeople might dislike the humans after Ariel\'s adventure, it knocked down walls and proposed a future of unity and respect for each other. Plus, Triton was able to see past all that, learn that humans aren\'t all the same, through his daughter\'s actions. So I disagree with comments that say she is a lost cause and her actions resulted in nothing.

Besides, she did think about her family, but something tells me she did not fit in with them. (I know, I\'m sorry that it\'s an assumption, but still.) Her father was very closed-minded, he wouldn\'t listen to Ariel as she tried to reason with him, and even when she wanted to follow her dreams and live her own life, he made her accept the consequences (smashing down the statue and her collection for being in love with a human. That was harsh.) For Ariel\'s own happiness, she had to leave them. She was unhappy down in the water and when it comes to her dreams, it has to be about her. That\'s what a dream is; a personal life goal.

I disagree with Jasmine being bratty too, and I know that\'s been cleared in the comments so I will not elaborate.

I have neutral feelings about Merida; she acted rashly and was certainly selfish in the beginning. I spoke about having dreams and being allowed to chase them - with Ariel it was leaving her family, not transforming them into bears so you can have your way. Granted Merida didn\'t know of this, but this act was selfish; it involved changing someone else and therefore affecting them more than Ariel\'s family because it was more physical, for Merida\'s own gain. But I definitely commend her for her character development during the movie and I was very impressed.

I\'m sorry about the long comment and I\'m sorry if I have offended anyone but please do not criticise me for my opinions. Disagree, that\'s fine, as I have disagreed with others.

^Nah that\'s the whole point of the debate. I need all the input I can get. And once again valid point emotion has to be taken into consideration and personal desire, to achieve your own goal for yourself.

So basically what I\'ve gathered is that Ariel has a right to run away as the environment was not to her liking and she has a right to persue her own goals in life. After all her happiness matters just as much as Tritons. Triton learns his lesson to be more open minded. Ariel doesn\'t really realize she was wrong, but her actions achieve some peace between the humans and the mermaids. But by justifying that there must be a like-minded assumption there was nothing under the sea to be grateful for and if there is she isn\'t happy with that (kind of bratty) and is willing to give it all up even if that means hurting some feelings in the end. Then again her friends help her out in making her dream come true and everyone is generally ok with her leaving except Triton, even Sebastian admits she\'ll be miserable for the rest of her life if she stays. There is still the bits around the edges that I need to pick out.

. Ariel not listening to reason with Triton: Declined, Bratty.

Ariel\'s excuses "I just forgot" (ditching concerts and rehearsals) and "I didn\'t mean to, I didn\'t know" (You, monster): Declined, Bratty.

Trusting Ursula: Undecided. Ursula manipulated her, sure she should have thought about it logically, but this isn\'t concerning intelligence. She willing to take the deal for a chance and ultimately doesn\'t care what it might back fire. Willing is all she is here. She\'s just ignorant of what Ursula is doing. Then Triton wasn\'t really helping himself by distroying everything she loved and not allowing her to making her own choices for better or for worse.

There is still the lack of an apology in all this. There is still a lack of concern for her friends and family. We end the movie that Ariel was completely right, though she\'s also to blame. If it weren\'t for Eric stabbing Ursula with a boat Ariel would have no ground to stand on (Badumtss). Then again Ursula being the villain manipulated the situation. Ariel was under the impression that Ursuala wouldn\'t manipulate the situation, hence she took the deal, so in her mind it should go as planned and it would if it wasn\'t for Ursuala she\'d leave her father on bad terms (which is bratty), but no harm would come to anyone. But that also means she KNOWS she\'ll put her father through grievance which is terrible to inflict on her father and sisters.

I actually have mostly a huge problem with Merida.

Let\'s break this down: I consider Jasmine as fairly stupid, because she doesn\'t think her actions through, but at the end of the day, I can understand the desire to not live in a golden cage. I just dislike that she doesn\'t use her smarts to change that but instead proofs again and again that she has no idea what she is even talking about. She is kind off the hook, though, because for one, it is not really her fault to be raised that way and two, she isn\'t the main character, Aladdin is.

Ariel gets off the hook (mostly) because she believes that she is only risking her own well-being and being a typical teenager, she just doesn\'t really consider the possible consequences of her actions. It\'s not the most endearing character trait, but I see the movie mostly being about a typical teenager getting way over her head.

Merida on the other hand...talk about having a mean streak. I just can\'t get over the fact that she first poisons her mother and then acts all gleeful while she is in pain. Yes, she apologizes in the end, but she needs a whole movie to even admit to her obvious mistake...and in the end, she gets what she wants. Plus, I have less understanding for her from the get go, because unlike Jasmine she is not living in golden cage. She gets education, and he main complain is that she wants to roam free in the woods always and not just on her free days. Bottom line, she is lazy.

Not that this is a matter of pride or anything, but Ariel\'s situation happens in real life more often than you\'d think. If you did get born to a set of parents who are really strict overseers and disciplinarians, you\'ll find yourself ALWAYS AT FAULT --- IN THEIR VIEW. Every time you act, make decisions for yourself, or think something different from them, that deviates from their " preordained, imagined plans for you" --- you draw their ire.

I live this way with my own mother. I have to tread extremely carefully in my interactions with her. She\'s easily offended if I make my own choices, think my own thoughts, and go my own way. It sounds ODD in a character like Ariel--- but I ASSURE YOU--- I LIVE THIS SITUATION OUT on a regular basis. This has been the way it has been since I was a little kid.

My mother was not totally wrong in her attempts to protect me, but when my own dreams for my life did not line up with her dreams for me, she became a truly nasty person. Our fights always fill me with pain, and cause me to question my own self-identity. I know why Ariel is depressed. I fight that same depression over and over.

If you could consider that I could identify with this story, not purely because it is some mermaid having issues with her father and "getting her way" --- but because of the interaction between child and parent, you might imagine what it is like to live this way FOR REAL. It\'s not pleasant. It\'s not healthy. And it scars up your insides. Then in TLM2, when Ariel is found guilty of doing the EXACT SAME THING to Melody that Triton did to her--- THAT\'S WHAT I FEAR, myself. I\'m scared to ever have kids. How will I ever be a good parent??? (I\'m afraid of turning into my mother....) I\'ll...just... I need time to heal, just like Ariel needs THAT DISTANCE AWAY FROM HER FAMILY, in order to heal.

Abuse. I have a hard time with Frozen because of Elsa\'s abuse. I have a hard time with The Little Mermaid ( occasionally) even if I love it--- because of the abuse factor. I don\'t like abuse much. I\'d like my own freedom, sure. But I don\'t want to be condemned for wanting my own freedom. Just like I don\'t want Ariel to be condemned for wanting her own freedom, because I can relate to that. And if Ariel is condemned in a story, then what happens to me in real life? Is there no hope at all for my particular situation?

^Understandable and she\'s now accepted for running away and wanting her own freedom. There\'s only bratty 2 things that no one has cleared. Ariel: Makes excuses and has a lack of concern. Everything else she has done is in the clear so far and non bratty just bold. Also just as Merida has denied responsibility so has Ariel. Merida\'s character change in the end may withdraw her from this case seeing as she changes drastically, it\'s clear that Merida was a brat however later on she is different so she doesn\'t really have a stand point here. Ariel is not really clear yet, unless you claim that being the "typical teenager" Ariel is. All looking towards views of a different set. Ariel doesn\'t really want responsibilities either as she often skips out on them.

^ I know exactly how you feel. In fact that\'s my life basically right now, a parent who controls my every move. But that\'s exactly what my PROBLEM is with Ariel. First, I\'ll address swan Pride and say Ariel does not get off the hook for being a teenager. She says clear in the movie that, "I\'m sixteen! I\'m not a child!" So if she wants to be treated as an adult, let\'s treat her like an adult. Ariel did end up changing her father, just the same as Merida changed her mom into a bear, both unwittingly. But while Merida stayed by her mom and used her smarts to try to change her back (Finally she started using her brain) Ariel still didn\'t stop for one minute to think about what she going to do. She didn\'t stay by her father and still made reckless decisions while Eric finished the job. Merida made a total 360 degree turn while Ariel didn\'t. I want address MissCassecou because I think Bellerose did that fairly well. So back to what I was saying at first. Ariel\'s father doesn\'t control her every movie as to say Merida\'s. She acts for music, after a long awaited time he gives her music. She asked to be human after a long awaited time he gives her that. She asked for a pony probably after him thinking he\'ll give her that. It\'s obvious that she skips out on the concerts a lot and after the one rule he gives her is broken that\'s when he finally flips out. Breaking her stuff was a dastardly thing to do but she practically said she wasn\'t her kid anymore when she was still his kid, at 16. If she was such a bright young women she should know he has control over her. What she said was horrible and she never once apologizes for it. I don\'t think she\'s in the clear for having a dream because it seems like this dream just came out of nowhere. Like I said before in the song part of your world she goes, "betha on land they understand bet they don\'t reprimand their daughters" *cricket cricket* What? shouldn\'t she know that where ever she goes life won\'t be perfect. The grass isn\'t always greener on the other side. She seems to have her whole life figured out, and while I admire that, she\'s a kid. No matter what she says she\'s a child. Whenever my mom asked me that if I don\'t want to live my life like her what I want to do I am never so sure as Ariel is as to what she wants to do for the rest of her life. Because I\'m a kid. Whenever I\'m older I\'ll figure it out. And that\'s what I think Ariel should have done. Sit down, wait till she\'s older and then see. Once she\'s out of her father\'s custody she can live life her way and not have to be reprimanded, she doesn\'t have to rush into marriage as if it\'s not big deal. Her father was afraid she\'d make the wrong decision and then he just gave up. I see it as a Bella Swan moment. Bella Swan, like Ariel, knew exactly what she wanted to do with her life, knew exactly that she wanted to be changed into a vampire, knew exactly that she wanted to marry Edward and at such a young age. Another problem in how she seems to have it so easy as to actually have people related to her who are magic. Well I never was able to go to my aunt and just tell her to change me, become human, and life my happy life. What if her father had to stay a polyp after Ursula was dead? She be stuck living her sad mermaid life. A the end her father is the one with this magical epithany where Ariel just nods her head life "I knew this day would come" and leaves. Isn\'t Ariel going to say anything? Nope just, "love you daddy! Bye! See you in twelve years when I become a hypocrite!" And that\'s where my problems lay.

^^^You\'re starting to repeat yourself, Sk8r_grl. Not that you can see that, but being removed from what you\'ve said--- you\'re now repeating yourself. I honestly wonder how you can STAND ANY MAGICAL OUTCOME FOR TIANA, a waitress, who basically can\'t achieve her dream-- and then bursts the hopes of the people around her. If that\'s what passes as okay for you, then fine. Tiana doesn\'t apologize for her mistakes, EITHER.

And as for King Triton having FULL CONTROL over Ariel--- HE DOESN\'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO CONTROL HER THOUGHTS, or HER DREAMS, or HER HOPES. I don\'t care if he\'s her parent, he is NOT ALLOWED to be openly ABUSIVE, and then further shun his daughter in the eyes of the rest of the Atlantica community. Which is WHAT HE DOES. King Triton treats Ariel worse than his other daughters, and simply because she has a different viewpoint than he does. Ariel might well have stayed in the sea, simply dreaming a happy daydream about Eric had the statue remained intact--- but Triton decided that eradication of her dream was what he had in mind.

I don\'t know how much magical thinking you can stand, but it seems that you can believe in Elsa\'s magical powers and her distress and fear about saving others. You can believe in Tiana\'s dream, and not reproach her for blindly following it even if she treats others poorly without an apology. So why is it, that you can not overlook Ariel\'s dreams and motives--- which are no worse or better than any of the other princesses? If you don\'t like magic resolutions to problems, then you\'ve come to the wrong place because the DP pantheon is full of magical resolutions!!! Most DP endings show forgiveness of kids by their parents. And forgiveness of parents by their kids IS THE NORM.

So you think Ariel shirks her responsibilities? Elsa runs off and shirks her responsibilities by OPENLY ABDICATING THE THRONE of Arendelle. Other princesses run away, and stop their "princessy responsibilities" as they pursue their freedom and their dreams. Jasmine runs away and shirks her responsibilities, because she wants to experience more of life. Merida defies her mother\'s commands and shirks her responsibility to get married. Belle briefly considers not honoring her promise to the Beast, and thinks about simply running away for home after the incident with the wolves. Rapunzel runs away from her tower with a total stranger, despite Mother Gothel\'s admonishing to the contrary. LOTS of other princesses NEGLECT their responsibilities!!!!

I fail to understand how Ariel is worse than Elsa for making excuses. Elsa can\'t stop the winter and tells Hans, "I can\'t make it stop!" How is Ariel\'s excuse, "I\'m sorry, Daddy! I didn\'t know---" any worse? We claim that Elsa DOESN\'T KNOW about the far reaching consequences when she is building her ice castle. Then by that logic, it is fair to assume that Ariel thought Ursula was ONLY DEALING WITH HER and STRIKING A BARGAIN WITH ONLY HERSELF. Ariel accepted the terms, thinking that the consequences were only tailored to her. She knew that becoming a polyp was a possibility. But it was something that Ariel figured wouldn\'t affect every other part of the ocean and her father\'s kingdom. Ursula omitted details--- SO HOW IS THAT ARlEL\'S FAULT?

I don\'t see why Ariel has to apologize for being the victim of abuse. Ariel DID NOT turn her father into a polyp--- URSULA DID. I fail to see how that is Ariel\'s fault. Triton finally showed a sacrificial nature!!!! It is not Ariel\'s fault that Ursula USED HER to get back at Triton. Ariel was a PAWN.

And Ariel actually SAVES Eric\'s life for the second time from Ursula, and in so doing-- KILLS URSULA INDIRECTLY. Had Ariel not aimed the trident at Ursula\'s eels, Ursula would still have ruled the ocean!!!! ( By preventing Eric from dying, a second time, Ariel killed off Ursula). Ariel still cares deeply about her father, and about protecting Atlantica from Ursula.

I fail to see how Ariel doesn\'t save her father\'s life, her father\'s kingdom, and earn her father\'s respect. What more do you want from a child of sixteen?

Well what does Tiana have to apologize for? Elsa says sorry and opens the gates. She Doesn\'t say "I\'m sorry daddy! I didn\'t know-" she says "Daddy,I didn\'t mean to, I didn\'t know" When she DID mean to runaway leaving him heartbroken and she DID know the consequences if she failed. She knows she\'s leaving her father on bad terms, she should think that he still loves her, even if it\'s abusive he does this all out of love. She never apologizes and even when an apology is in order (missing the concert) she refuses blame "I just forgot" and when her father shows compassion "Do you think I want to see my youngest daughter snared by some fish eaters hook?" Instead of thinking "Well he\'s trying to look after me." Or hear him out Ariel shoots back "I\'m 16! I\'m not a child!" There was no reason to be that rude towards him when he was expressing concern. Also Ariel lacks concern, when Flounder and Ariel are exploring and Flounder gets stuck and scared she laughs it off, then helps him out, then she goes back to exploring. When Sebastian says "I hope you know what I go through for you young lady." She doesn\'t pay him any attention. How, may I ask, is that reasonable?

Does Tiana give a crap about Naveen\'s dreams? No. She considers him a spoiled little rich boy, and does her best TO IGNORE HIM. She only decides--- AFTER HESITATION--- to save his life from Doctor Facilier. Does Tiana care about Ray\'s dreams? No. She scoffs at him for being in love with a star. How is that reasonable?

She does owe them an apology, 1) for being rather scornful, and 2) for hurting their feelings about their dreams.

Also, King Triton HAD ALREADY BROKEN ARIEL\'S HEART. So, getting away from him was the best alternative Ariel could think of--- or have King Triton still continue brow-beating her. Triton doesn\'t know when TO STOP. Ariel does. She leaves, which is within her right. Sure, it will hurt her father. But her father already SEVERED his fragile relationship with her!

I guess the real question is, should Ariel stay in the sea with her abuser? Do we urge those being abused to remain with their abusers?

I tried to make it as clear as possible in my response that I was repeating a lot of things I\'ve already said before, shown in my use of the sentence, "as I\'ve said before" a lot. I\'m repeating myself because it seems you are completely dodging what I\'m trying to say and completely go your own direction without addressing anything. I can\'t take you seriously if your going to just explode at every sentence I right. If you can\'t take this seriously, then leave. If you can\'t respect other people\'s opinions then don\'t come on here. I can\'t recall me saying that I can over look the magic that Tiana and Elsa has, but that has nothing to do with this. Tiana never wanted to use magic for herself, Naveen got her into that situation, and Elsa never wanted her powers, she\'s born that way (How the hell the movie overlooks explaining that to us in beyond me) But that\'s not the point. I don\'t have a problem with magic in the movies but saying that any little girl can relate to getting out of all her problems by the wave of a wand in ridiculous. In less your six years old you HAVE to be smarter than that. Like Bellerose said, everyone who was helping out Ariel on her way like Sebastian, Flounder, Scuttle and more she treats in the rudest way possible. Sebastian is going out of his way trying to help her out of the situation that Ariel put herself into and all she practically says is, "Oh your helping me? Oh well that\'s great bye tehehe! When Scuttle makes sure to tell Ariel that Vanessa is Ursula she gives him one big glance and then runs off to worry about herself. I also can\'t stand when Ariel is in the beginning and she can see that her so called "best friend" Flounder is scared that he\'ll get eaten by a shark (pretty understandable in my perspective) She makes him stay there and even teases him about how scared he is, "You can just stay her and watch for sharks" That\'s is incredibly rude of her to say. If she was really his friend she shouldn\'t push him to do something that he clearly DOESN\'T want to do. And stop bringing other princesses into this, it\'s completely pointless and there not on trial here. Tiana didn\'t put her self into the situation of being a frog where every move Ariel makes is her own stupid decision. She can not stop putting other people and herself in danger. The only aspect where I think Tiana is bitchy is when she told Ray that Evangeline was just a star, which I don\'t know if you were referring to or not. But she didn\'t owe Naveen an apology, he got her in that situation she got him out, sounds good to me. And I just can\'t seem to understand why your so blinded with you love for Ariel. "OMG I hate Tiana she\'s such a jerk to everyone" "OMG I hate Elsa because she\'s depressed" "OMG I love Ariel because... *cricket cricket* why do you love Ariel ? It sounds like all the reasons you hate the other girls you love and adore Ariel for. Your saying that while Ariel does insert thing here it\'s okay because other girls do insert thing here too isn\'t a reason. What if we take out all the people that help Ariel along the way what do we get? She\'d either be Ursula\'s Polyp, Heartbroken because Eric married Vanessa, or forever whiny under the sea. Plus Ariel knew Ursula was evil in less she was to focused on her self to listen to what her father had to say to warn her, or she was to STUPID to look around her and see all the fellow mermaids and merman who suffered. All those other polyp\'s had to suffer there consequences and didn\'t whine where if it\'s Ariel she thinks she\'s too good to except responsibility. Sorry If I come off as an intolerable bitch just PLEASE stop screaming your comments.

Whoa, her abuser? that\'s her father. He is not abusive as to let her roam the open sea as much as she wants. He doesn\'t make fun of her he doesn\'t beat her. He had ONE FRICKEN RULE and that rule was only so she doesn\'t DIE! She could have said, "hey daddy, I saw these humans up there and they didn\'t try to kill me so maybe check them out for yourself?" No, she says, "Daddy I don\'t care that human is really hot!!! And guess what I\'m not a child! So I\'m just gonna go and get a spell from your nemeses. She wasn\'t trying to walk away from the fight, she then preceded to go to Ursula! How is that not causing a fight? If anything, she was trying to start round 1 of the fight by taking it to whole new levels. Is that the definition of mature, I try so politely to ask you?

You do seem to be dodging what I said about Ariel not listening to Sebastian amount other things. Please adress each accusation against your client, Ariel, or it can\'t be taken seriously. Keep in mind this isn\'t about any other princess just Ariel alone. Triton is OVERBEARING to the point where her run away mission is understandable, moving on from that her attitude towards him, even if he is a bit unruly, is uncalled for. Please address the following.

She Doesn\'t say "I\'m sorry daddy! I didn\'t know-" she says "Daddy,I didn\'t mean to, I didn\'t know" When she DID mean to runaway leaving him heartbroken and she DID know the consequences if she failed. She knows she\'s leaving her father on bad terms, she should think that he still loves her, even if it\'s abusive he does this all out of love. She never apologizes and even when an apology is in order (missing the concert) she refuses blame "I just forgot" and when her father shows compassion "Do you think I want to see my youngest daughter snared by some fish eaters hook?" Instead of thinking "Well he\'s trying to look after me." Or hear him out Ariel shoots back "I\'m 16! I\'m not a child!" There was no reason to be that rude towards him when he was expressing concern. Also Ariel lacks concern, when Flounder and Ariel are exploring and Flounder gets stuck and scared she laughs it off, then helps him out, then she goes back to exploring. When Sebastian says "I hope you know what I go through for you young lady." She doesn\'t pay him any attention. How, may I ask, is that reasonable? She never takes blame or responsibility. Remember this is a debate, not a flame war. Prove me wrong that how we get places.

@Sk8r_grl: Triton had a bunch of rules. Don\'t play music. Don\'t interact with outcasts from Atlantica. Don\'t go to the surface. No contact with the human world, because that is strictly forbidden. Don\'t collect human things from sunken ships.

Yes, he is merman full of rules. He is an abuser, and yes--- even abusers show concern for their victims--- so that their victims let down their defenses a little bit because of the compassion they think is being shown. Then the abuser hurts them some more.

I\'m done here. I haven\'t dodged your arguments. I\'ve met them head on. I\'m sorry you despise me for loving Ariel and seeing that she is flawed--- and acknowledging that every other princess in the DP line is flawed, too. I don\'t know why me pointing that out angered you so much, but I guess that is your take on things. I emphasized certain words in my argument, because you emphasized certain words in your rebuttal to me which did feel like you were screaming. This has devolved into a sort of he-said-she-said argument without end.

I will stop defending Ariel, since you make out her flaws to be most incorrigible above all others of the Disney princesses. I guess Ariel should deserve no mercy for her behavior. I guess she deserves the hatred she gets from you and everyone else.

This argument is over. The defense withdraws its argument. Ariel is found guilty of irresponsibility, hurting her father, and jeopardizing everyone in the ocean.

I was going to come back into this debate but I guess it\'s over now. :-/

But if Ariel taught you anything, didn\'t she teach not to quit. I\'m simply asking you to to address everything I don\'t think you quite touched on. Ariel is in the clear for running away as she is avoiding abuse, but you also should also touch on the others things. And if you quite now I\'ll have to settle with the opposing side. Again I don\'t hate Ariel she used to be my 5th favorite you just got to prove her innocence, but if not I guess that means she is guilty.

Shame this was a very good debate, I felt I was about to reach a conclusion. She was basically half innocent, but with no further allegations it\'s going to be impossible to deduce an answer. Hmmm what a pickle. Afraid to say I\'m not satisfied in the least.

^I don\'t hate you for your opinion on Ariel. I don\'t understand it, but I\'ll respect it. Even though I think you have a problem respecting other people\'s opinions. I respected you a lot more for your first argument (second? idk) because it was insightful and you weren\'t throwing anyone under the bus. This has gotten out of hand and like Bellerose said is a flame war. if that\'s the way you want it, fine. Then leave. You still haven\'t addressed Bellerose\'s case though.

Ariel\'s attorney has left due to dissatisfaction and Ariel has been sent to community service. *bangs gavel* Meeting adjourned.

Edit: If anyone else still wants to join I\'d be willing to debate :)

@BelleRose: I\'m sorry that I can\'t make things clearer. I\'ve attempted to explain the abuse dynamic between father and daughter. I will repeat what I said to Sk8r_grl, because this does apply, even in my own life.

"Triton is an abuser, and yes--- even abusers show concern for their victims--- so that their victims let down their defenses a little bit because of the compassion they think is being shown. Then the abuser hurts them some more." Ariel recognizes a familiar compassionate phrase that triton has said to her, before. But this compassion he shows never lasts. He is compassionate in one instance, and rages at her in another. Ariel sees through this false compassion and says," I\'m 16. I\'m not a child anymore!" ---as in--- daddy you\'re still treating me like a little kid. Please treat me like an adult. How do I know your compassion is genuine, daddy?"

If Ariel stayed in the sea with Triton, he would have compelled her to sing for him at every fete he wanted. When not in rehearsals, he would have locked her in some kind of private quarters until she--- came to her senses. Failing all of this, she would have been married off to a worthy merman as quickly as Triton could arrange it.

I\'ve said "I just forgot" to my mother a number of times. In my own mind, I really DID just forget some task that she wanted done, but she explodes over it all the same. She makes a mountain out of a molehill. That is what Triton does when Ariel says she forgot about the concert. As for missing rehearsals, perhaps Ariel brought back music, but found out that Triton was going to use music against her, as a tool of exerting further "control" and making more hoops for her to jump through. Ariel tired of jumping through every hoop arranged by her father and sebastian. So she opted out of going to rehearsals.

As for her placing Flounder and sebastian in danger, actually she was not at fault there, either. What she said to Flounder was a bit of sarcasm. She was not really going to let him watch for sharks or get eaten by a shark. She wanted his company. She likes Flounder\'s company on her adventures. Wherever Ariel goes, Flounder has always accompanied her. She doesn\'t let him get eaten. As for sebastian, she has saved his position as her father\'s aide when Triton wanted to withdraw it. She appreciates sebastian\'s help, and kisses him for it!!! She pats sebastian on the head in passing, saying good night. Despite being not able to speak as a human--- she is capable of showing love and gratitude. Sebastian has a habit of talking out loud. He thinks out loud. Not everything he says, needs a response from Ariel, because most of the statements are rhetorical questions. He doesn\'t expect an answer, because he knows Ariel loves him and cares about him.

Ariel loves Scuttle. Why do you think she spends so much time with a seagull who knows nothing about human stuff? Of course she is as ignorant about the stuff she has collected as he is--- but she enjoys scuttle\'s company tremendously, and that is why she keeps coming back. On land, Ariel knows that Scuttle is trying to help her, even if he can\'t sing--- and is actually squawking out notes on the romantic lagoon boat ride. She trusts Scuttle\'s words, when he says that Vanessa is Ursula in disguise. She can\'t speak, but she trusts him, and Scuttle wants her to take action! So she dives into the water!

At the end she gives both Scuttle and Flounder a kiss for being by her side the whole way through. She is amused at Sebastian\'s antics with the chef. She loves her friends, and she loves her father, regardless of the fact that they have both hurt each other, and have not always seen eye-to-eye. She wants to start over in her relationship with her father. Triton wants to start over in his relationship with his daughter, since he admired her for taking out ursula. So he gives her human legs, and decides to take a chance that Eric --- and humans in general--- maybe aren\'t all bad. When Ariel says that "Oh, Daddy! Daddy, I love you!" it is a relinquishing of her fear of him. Ariel is setting aside her fear of her own father, which was instilled in her by the prior abuse she suffered at his hands.

Does any of this make any sense? This is what I see in Ariel. A girl with flaws, struggling to have a relationship with her father, and struggling to hold onto her dream at the same time. It\'s a trust issue. The trust got eroded in Triton and Ariel\'s relationship. But the ending is beautiful, because both are attempting to restore their trust in each other.

This makes a lot more sense. I\'m a bit cranky right now so I\'m sorry if I come off as mean. I already gave you both props for your arguments. I still don\'t completely agree but I respect your opinion and I don\'t feel like fighting.

Great points! This is what I wanted to hear. However you can\'t assume that she is missing her rehearsals for that sole reason it must be certain as in shown. With only one thing against Ariel I see this debate coming to a conclusion soon. With only missing rehearsals and some snappy comeback, I can see Ariel is just bold, hot head and impulsive. Yes? She is not guilty nor is she innocent. Perhaps a Jury is is order.

Both lawyers have executed there allegations perfectly and after further deliberation I find the defendant...

not bratty, just very impulsive, ignorant and hot headed. Nothing to bad, but still not ideal. Great work everyone. I have now found I place for Ariel on list. *bangs gavel* case dismissed.

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